X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c1) with ESMTPS id 4791185 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:45:06 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wyb28 with SMTP id 28so830153wyb.25 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 04:44:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=hXbVuv8khe7iVH0/G/SG95V9ZVZvRyyOXL7hCn+Aa00=; b=A32QValy9iJrTwzB5lOO3ffh7+/qAEVJlYEEP5CZGK31/3AhUJx4N/vs/bPiVA+gQI tf63+MszFB4qDaozvWWTVyg8Dzcs7Dt/BYKzii2oHRz6kduO3kze4ZH8uokJ55NVv49V JRSpzXUMAzi3TG5v/DJSbO34yM85ADfrBUTWs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=uEijYqUG+oQ5o/xyRRHWDLqZVL9FXUQQGR0QgfOM+RriL9Ko7hTouPHwnYVaV6aPaU to5/jqzkGXjj2bZSG3YMeraAaLd5m61JNs1RC2zD6YNbKMTHUPJa6sWGJ+Dc2E3if05x mkADIS+Bc0eQvfpDzivUPpAlhsVaWKE0Jz7SU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.61.202 with SMTP id w52mr2307165wec.110.1295441068924; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 04:44:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.200.158 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 04:44:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:44:28 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: zZRQTw4ZtQAJSr8P3s3UEjM3Fpk Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0037abdd7cb049a3260cf --000e0ce0037abdd7cb049a3260cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used that same Summit Racing filter for a short time. Replaced it with = a Peterson filter because of the factors you mentioned. My filter was on the inlet side of the pump though. BTW, I never liked the idea of the boost pump on the inlet side of EFI pump because of the pressure drop when it isn't running. If you actually NEED a boost pump, it probably means your EFI pumps are not where they should be (at or below fuel level in tank). Tracy On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Well, the MAP table was ok. The problem was my high pressure fuel filte= r > on the primary fuel pump. There were a lot of black particles in the fil= ter > that had it blocked. The secondary filter was clean but had only been ru= n > for a few minutes. This is the second time I found black material in thi= s > filter. The first time was about 40 gallons ago. This previous material > was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come from not properly > cleaning my hoses out after I made them. This time the material looked l= ike > tiny black particles. I don=92t think they came from the hoses, but if n= ot, > they must have come from the pump itself. > > > > My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet = of > the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to = a > Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a filt= er > after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then exces= s > fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using from. > > > > I haven=92t yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to g= et > to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in it. It = had > a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my fue= l > tanks in it. This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches long or > the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles. Oh yeah, the fing= er > strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel. I emptied both > tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try and check the finger > strainers. The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pumping t= hru > the strainers and Gascolator. My fuel lines up to the FI pumps are all > either =BD inch or -8 in size. After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -= 6 to > the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks. > > > > Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters? > > > > Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned t= he > filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using= . > I am using Summit filters like the one here. > > > > http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/ > > > > This filter has a small screen that is about =BE inch in diameter and is = 40 > microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs. I am think= ing > it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unless your > system was so clean you didn=92t need it in the first place. > > > > I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and added > another one. Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter tha= t > looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should I > try and put in two filters of that type. I have very little space to add > this type of filter and I don=92t know if it would even be possible to ad= d two > of them. I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and > possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil filter > type. Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they get > contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters? > > > > Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am > close enough to be thinking of flying. :>) Hep me! Hep me! > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption? > > > > I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table. During my runup > today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping. At full WOT, the > pressure dropped to below 20 psi. I engaged the secondary fuel pump and = the > pressure came back to the 40 lb range. It appears that my fuel filter af= ter > the primary pump may be partially clogged. I will clean them tomorrow an= d > let you know what I find. > > > > Bill B > > > --000e0ce0037abdd7cb049a3260cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used that same Summit Racing filter for a short time.=A0=A0 Replaced it w= ith a Peterson filter because of the factors you mentioned.=A0 My filter wa= s on the inlet side of the pump though.

BTW, I never liked the idea = of the boost pump on the inlet side of EFI pump because of the pressure dro= p when it isn't running.=A0 If you actually NEED a boost pump, it proba= bly means your EFI pumps are not where they should be (at or below fuel lev= el in tank).

Tracy

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:33 A= M, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Well, the MAP = table was ok.=A0 The problem was my high pressure fuel filter on the primary fuel pump.=A0 There were a = lot of black particles in the filter that had it blocked.=A0 The secondary filter = was clean but had only been run for a few minutes.=A0 This is the second time I= found black material in this filter.=A0 The first time was about 40 gallons ago.= =A0 This previous material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come fr= om not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made them.=A0 This time the mate= rial looked like tiny black particles.=A0 I don=92t think they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have come from the pump itself.

=A0

My fuel system= is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, t= hen thru a boost pump, then to a Gascolator, then to either of primary or secon= dary fuel pump, then a filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressur= e regulator, then excess fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I a= m using from.

=A0

I haven=92t ye= t checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to get to, but my Gascolator did not hav= e any of the black particles in it.=A0 It had a small amount of white fuzz th= at is probably fiberglass dust from my fuel tanks in it.=A0 This leaves me a sect= ion of -8 hose about 14 inches long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles.=A0 Oh yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both abl= e to move fuel.=A0 I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could = try and check the finger strainers.=A0 The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 o= r 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and Gascolator.=A0 My fuel lines up to t= he FI pumps are all either =BD inch or -8 in size.=A0 After the FI pumps the fuel= lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks.

=A0

Is anyone else= seeing this kind of material in their filters?

=A0

Also, since th= is occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the filters, I am concerned about the capa= city of the fuel filters I am using.=A0 I am using Summit filters like the one h= ere.

=A0

http://www.su= mmitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/

=A0

This filter ha= s a small screen that is about =BE inch in diameter and is 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs.=A0 I am thinking it would be fine for a drag car, = but not for hours of flight unless your system was so clean you didn=92t need it in the first place.

=A0

I originally h= ad one filter in the system, but became concerned and added another one.=A0 Now I am wondering if I shou= ld go to the type of filter that looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one = be sufficient or should I try and put in two filters of that type.=A0 I have very little = space to add this type of filter and I don=92t know if it would even be possible to add two of them.=A0 I would really appreciate any input you guys could g= ive and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil filter type.=A0 Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contami= nated or will they block like these small in line filters?

=A0

Fuel starvatio= n is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be thinking of flying.= =A0 :>)=A0=A0=A0 Hep me!=A0 Hep me!

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 16, = 2011 5:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: A= pex seals and MAP table corruption?

=A0

I may be takin= g it back what I said about the MAP table.=A0 During my runup today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping.=A0 At full WOT, the pressure dropped to below 20 psi.=A0 I engaged the secondary fuel pump and the pressure came back to the 40 lb ran= ge.=A0 It appears that my fuel filter after the primary pump may be partially clogged.=A0 I will clean them tomorrow and let you know what I find.=

=A0

Bill B<= /font>

=A0


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