X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com ([67.222.39.38] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c1) with SMTP id 4790936 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 01:11:09 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=67.222.39.38; envelope-from=jslade@canardaviation.com Received: (qmail 15889 invoked by uid 0); 19 Jan 2011 06:10:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO host296.hostmonster.com) (66.147.240.96) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2011 06:10:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=canardaviation.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=uqRWfiyQIm44Q16pL8fzwWL6Ct+VAJVV7V4wpp2VxDycNXVy2teN+71A36/uxDcH1wpcDqFtTfv4wgfFD814a5CzGLlXxHUgrgVHjZN7EPVTnAu2qFCOYH0DG7VRz6zZ; Received: from c-174-61-10-12.hsd1.fl.comcast.net ([174.61.10.12] helo=[192.168.1.4]) by host296.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PfRFY-0008PD-Vd for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Jan 2011 23:10:33 -0700 Message-ID: <4D368065.7040608@canardaviation.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 01:10:45 -0500 From: John Slade Reply-To: jslade@canardaviation.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050700040101010402020004" X-Identified-User: {3339:host296.hostmonster.com:instanu1:canardaviation.com} {sentby:smtp auth 174.61.10.12 authed with jslade+canardaviation.com} This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050700040101010402020004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using. Yep. I have similar filters and they've blocked up two or three times. I have two large jegs filters ready to install next time I get to the hangar. On my last flight the mixture started to go lean on one side (on my full tank). A slight twist of the mixture knob and it ran well for 10 minutes, then went lean again. I ended up on full rich mixture by the time I landed. Keeping the two tanks separate has been a good backup, but those little filters block way too easily. Regards, John On 1/19/2011 12:33 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Well, the MAP table was ok. The problem was my high pressure fuel > filter on the primary fuel pump. There were a lot of black particles > in the filter that had it blocked. The secondary filter was clean but > had only been run for a few minutes. This is the second time I found > black material in this filter. The first time was about 40 gallons > ago. This previous material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it > may have come from not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made > them. This time the material looked like tiny black particles. I > don't think they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have come > from the pump itself. > > My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the > outlet of the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost > pump, then to a Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary > fuel pump, then a filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel > pressure regulator, then excess fuel returns thru the selector valve > to the tank I am using from. > > I haven't yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to > get to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in > it. It had a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass > dust from my fuel tanks in it. This leaves me a section of -8 hose > about 14 inches long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black > particles. Oh yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both > able to move fuel. I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so > that I could try and check the finger strainers. The boost pump > filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and > Gascolator. My fuel lines up to the FI pumps are all either ½ inch or > -8 in size. After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -6 to the > regulator and -4 to return to the tanks. > > Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters? > > Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last > cleaned the filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel > filters I am using. I am using Summit filters like the one here. > > http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/ > > This filter has a small screen that is about ¾ inch in diameter and is > 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs. I am > thinking it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight > unless your system was so clean you didn't need it in the first place. > > I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and > added another one. Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of > filter that looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be > sufficient or should I try and put in two filters of that type. I > have very little space to add this type of filter and I don't know if > it would even be possible to add two of them. I would really > appreciate any input you guys could give and possibly some pics of > your installation if you are using the oil filter type. Do these type > have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contaminated or will they > block like these small in line filters? > > Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I > am close enough to be thinking of flying. :>) Hep me! Hep me! > > Bill B > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption? > > I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table. During my > runup today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping. At full > WOT, the pressure dropped to below 20 psi. I engaged the secondary > fuel pump and the pressure came back to the 40 lb range. It appears > that my fuel filter after the primary pump may be partially clogged. > I will clean them tomorrow and let you know what I find. > > Bill B > --------------050700040101010402020004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using.
Yep. I have similar filters and they've blocked up two or three times. I have two large jegs filters ready to install next time I get to the hangar. On my last flight the mixture started to go lean on one side (on my full tank). A slight twist of the mixture knob and it ran well for 10 minutes, then went lean again. I ended up on full rich mixture by the time I landed. Keeping the two tanks separate has been a good backup, but those little filters block way too easily.
Regards,
John   

On 1/19/2011 12:33 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:

Well, the MAP table was ok.  The problem was my high pressure fuel filter on the primary fuel pump.  There were a lot of black particles in the filter that had it blocked.  The secondary filter was clean but had only been run for a few minutes.  This is the second time I found black material in this filter.  The first time was about 40 gallons ago.  This previous material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come from not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made them.  This time the material looked like tiny black particles.  I don’t think they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have come from the pump itself.

 

My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to a Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then excess fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using from.

 

I haven’t yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to get to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in it.  It had a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my fuel tanks in it.  This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles.  Oh yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel.  I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try and check the finger strainers.  The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and Gascolator.  My fuel lines up to the FI pumps are all either ½ inch or -8 in size.  After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks.

 

Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters?

 

Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using.  I am using Summit filters like the one here.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/

 

This filter has a small screen that is about ¾ inch in diameter and is 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs.  I am thinking it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unless your system was so clean you didn’t need it in the first place.

 

I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and added another one.  Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter that looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should I try and put in two filters of that type.  I have very little space to add this type of filter and I don’t know if it would even be possible to add two of them.  I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil filter type.  Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters?

 

Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be thinking of flying.  :>)    Hep me!  Hep me!

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption?

 

I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table.  During my runup today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping.  At full WOT, the pressure dropped to below 20 psi.  I engaged the secondary fuel pump and the pressure came back to the 40 lb range.  It appears that my fuel filter after the primary pump may be partially clogged.  I will clean them tomorrow and let you know what I find.

 

Bill B

 


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