X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4674567 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:41:36 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=pepdxKapwHuwCZNFD5uob2wvham6E+RljB0uXw08FdQ= c=1 sm=0 a=v3rsQmhPahEA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=diXSUdDlAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=glYVDZ00AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=zI9qoKASaGhpkWu9vlEA:9 a=xfSpZ9c3tIpqzku9d8gA:7 a=GW3FQk9d0yHGdl8Qo0EZ0ZK5ZcgA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=tc34AQQ7E2QA:10 a=Xs21W9NlLssA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=vkC1qVqAsSwA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=XCwpvLtFMdsA:10 a=gubNk2kuM0obC3GL:21 a=4v1mQn-1IovIDjPK:21 a=cEsSX396AAAA:8 a=p0jDjdokNguS0xIkWa8A:9 a=XRyi-c2YBG1EnxX8cRYA:7 a=j-tHHmlLCjbmCfhlQmiPKVpQv_wA:4 a=a5-OGnwyBokA:10 a=cP_VhN8jPDHkzaK4:21 a=ClidPkDdV8l6hKin:21 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:50395] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id C3/28-19545-C62503D4; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:41:00 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seal update cont with pix of rotor andapexseals Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 08:40:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CBB3C6.BBF14980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CBB3C6.BBF14980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, A possible indicator of detonation - could be the rapid increase in = temperature. You don't say how quick, but from what I understand = detonation results in very high chamber pressures and heat increases. = This may quickly (more so than normal combustion) raise temperatures to = high level. Also remember any increase in temps you see in via the = coolant lags the temperatures inside/near the combustion chambers. =20 As several have mentioned indications of detonation is flattened springs = and damaged corners seals - all of which you seem to have. I have over = heated engines to the point of destroying the rubber corner seal plugs = but have never flatten the apex seal springs. Good Luck Ed From: Chris Barber=20 Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:19 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seal update cont with pix of rotor = andapexseals I am premixing.=20 Also, I am only using three lbs of boost. I was under the impression = that this low of boost should not be a problem. I know there are many = other possible causes and will be investigating. =20 I may start by putting in a lower boost spring in the waste gate (1.5 = lbs) but I am not really thinking this is the issue. Perhaps timing, as = I did play with it quite a bit before I sent my EC2 to Tracy for a check = and update. My higher power tests were quite short as the engine would = get hot fast but never to any degree that I would have thought would be = a problem. I have an intercooler, however, without any airflow its usefulness = during testing is next to nothing. Also, the intercooler ducting is = somewhat minimum at this point. I thought I would recognize detonation, as Lynn mentioned, but perhaps = not. I also read on the RX-7 site that the rear chamber is the one to usually = fail, as mine seems to bare out. Christopher Barber, JD. Corporal; Patrol Division Master Peace Officer Badge 330 Bellaire Police Department 5100 Jessamine Bellaire, Texas 77401 713-668-0487 CBarber@BellariePolice.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf = of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 05:52 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seal update cont with pix of rotor andapex = seals My first impression is they got overheated. Each apex appears very = dark, possibly due to heat. Are you pre-mixing or using the injection = pump. =20 Mark On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Chris Barber = wrote: ...and finally, for now. Thanks folks Chris -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous = e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is = legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person = responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the = information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY = PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please = immediately notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the = original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank = you. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CBB3C6.BBF14980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
 
A possible indicator of detonation - could be = the rapid=20 increase in temperature.  You don't say how quick, but from what I=20 understand detonation results in very high chamber pressures and heat=20 increases.  This may quickly (more so than normal combustion) raise = temperatures to high level.  Also remember any increase in temps = you see in=20 via the coolant lags the temperatures inside/near the combustion = chambers. =20
 
As several have mentioned indications of = detonation is=20 flattened springs and damaged corners seals - all of which you seem to=20 have.  I have over heated engines to the point of destroying the = rubber=20 corner seal plugs but have never flatten the apex seal = springs.
 
Good Luck
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seal update cont with pix of = rotor=20 andapexseals

I am premixing.

 

Also, I am only using three lbs of boost.  I was under the = impression=20 that this low of boost should not be a problem.  I know there are = many=20 other possible causes and will be investigating. 

 

I may start by putting in a lower boost spring in the waste = gate=20 (1.5 lbs) but I am not really thinking this is the issue.  Perhaps = timing,=20 as I did play with it quite a bit before I sent = my EC2=20 to Tracy for a check and update.  My higher power tests were quite = short as=20 the engine would get hot fast but never to any degree that I would have = thought=20 would be a problem.

 

I have an intercooler, however, without any airflow=20 its usefulness during testing is next to nothing. = Also, the=20 intercooler ducting is somewhat minimum at this point.

 

I thought I would recognize detonation, as Lynn mentioned, but = perhaps=20 not.

 

I also read on the RX-7 site that the rear chamber is the one to = usually=20 fail, as mine seems to bare out.

 

Christopher Barber, = JD.
Corporal; Patrol = Division
Master Peace = Officer
Badge 330
Bellaire Police = Department
5100 Jessamine
Bellaire, Texas = 77401
 
713-668-0487
CBarber@BellariePolice.com=
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 on behalf of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, = January=20 14, 2011 05:52
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seal update cont with pix of rotor andapex=20 seals

My first impression is they got overheated.  Each apex appears = very=20 dark, possibly due to heat.  Are you pre-mixing or using the = injection=20 pump.  =20

Mark

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Chris Barber = <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

...and finally, for now.

 

Thanks folks

 

Chris


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l



Warning: = This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mails = attached=20 to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. = If you=20 are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering = it to=20 the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, = copying,=20 distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached = to this=20 transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this = transmission in=20 error, please immediately notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and = destroy the=20 original transmission and its attachments without reading them. Thank=20 you.

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