X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4673272 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:52:30 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.105; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-106-221.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.106.221]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20110113135152H0500b7no2e>; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:51:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.106.221] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Secondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:51:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01CBB2FF.21FAA4B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcuzJ1yrvANIMmkIStOfLD4DhU7zGwAAPpGw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CBB2FF.21FAA4B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My injectors are all the same size. When I disable the secondary, I think it works as it should. It is when I disable the primary that I am concerned about. I haven't tried enriching the mixture as Ed suggested. I will try that next time I run the engine to see if that is a factor. What is the best/most popular engine run up check to do with our rotary engines before take off? Does anybody have a check list that they would like to share?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 8:44 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Secondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? If you have different size injectors it may require a mixture adjustment. My primary's and secondary's are the same size and no adjustment is necessary. If disabling the secondary's below staging causes any effect it's most likely a wiring problem. Have you tried disabling the secondary's by removing their power source instead of your injector switch? Bobby _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:12 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are running only on the primary injectors, if you turn off the secondary there is absolutely no effect at all (provided you are below the staging point) - because they are not injecting. However, if you have power to both primary and secondary injectors and turnoff the primary injectors - the secondary injectors will kick in (or should) and start injecting. But, what I have found is that if I don't' immedately turn the mixture control to full rich immediately after turning off the primary injectors - the engine will die. If in immedately enrich the engine will cough and then start to run at which point I must lean it back and then the engine will idle fine on the secondary injectors. My theory is there is no fuel flowing in the secondary runners because the secondary injectors are not firing - so for an instance there is nothing but air flowing into the combustion chamber which can cause it to die, unless you quickly over enrich it. (but the theory could be all wet {:>) Ed From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Chris, what is the latest scoop on the stuck apex seals? Did they free up? I currently have every thing (cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up so I can't investigate this further right now, but the last time I taxied my plane, I noticed that it was really lean at idle (took mixture knob to 4 pm) and when I ran it up, I could only get a little over 6K (previous would go to 6900!) rpm and the mixture knob full rich would not bring the mixture bar graph visible. I am pretty certain that my MAP table is corrupted. This is the first time this has happened to me. I am pretty certain that it was the time before that I switched the CPU from "A" to "B" and tested my coils. This was the first time I had done this. I normally just run it in "A" and am trying to get the tuning in so I can copy that to "B". Also, when I test the injectors.I have only done this at idle, if I disable the secondary, it stumbles, but keeps running. When I disable the primary, it would die if I didn't immediately switch it back. Sounds like the cold start might not be engaging on the primary??? Does anybody have any suggestions? Those of you who have had your MAP table corrupted, was a switch between CPUs and or coil testing involved prior to the problem? Could there be some involvement here??? Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01CBB2FF.21FAA4B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My injectors are all the same = size.  When I disable the secondary, I think it works as it should.  It is when = I disable the primary that I am concerned about.  I haven’t tried = enriching the mixture as Ed suggested.  I will try that next time I run the = engine to see if that is a factor.

What is the best/most popular = engine run up check to do with our rotary engines before take off?  Does = anybody have a check list that they would like to = share??

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Thursday, January = 13, 2011 8:44 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Secondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table = corruption?

 

If you have different size = injectors it may require a mixture adjustment. My primary’s and = secondary’s are the same size and no adjustment is necessary. If disabling the secondary’s below staging causes any effect it’s most likely = a wiring problem. Have you tried disabling the secondary’s by = removing their power source instead of your injector = switch?

 

Bobby 

 

=

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, January = 12, 2011 11:12 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table = corruption?

 

Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are running = only  on the primary injectors, if you turn off the secondary there is = absolutely no effect at all (provided you are below the staging point) - because = they are not injecting.  However, if you have power to both primary and = secondary injectors and turnoff the primary injectors - the secondary injectors = will kick in (or should) and start injecting.

 

But, what I have found is that if I don’t' = immedately turn the mixture control to full rich immediately after turning off the = primary injectors - the engine will die.  If in immedately enrich the = engine will cough and then start to run at which point I must lean it back  and = then the engine will idle fine on the secondary injectors.  My theory is = there is no fuel flowing in the secondary runners because the secondary = injectors are not firing - so for an instance there is nothing but air flowing into = the combustion chamber which can cause it to die, unless you quickly over = enrich it.  (but the theory could be all wet = {:>)

 

Ed

 

Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table = corruption?

 

Chris, what is the latest scoop on = the stuck apex seals?  Did they free up?

 

I currently have every thing (cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up so I can’t investigate this = further right now, but the last time I taxied my plane, I noticed that it was = really lean at idle (took mixture knob to 4 pm) and when I ran it up, I could = only get a little over 6K (previous would go to 6900!) rpm and the mixture knob = full rich would not bring the mixture bar graph visible.  I am pretty = certain that my MAP table is corrupted.  This is the first time this has = happened to me.

 

I am pretty certain that it was the = time before that I switched the CPU from “A” to “B” = and tested my coils.  This was the first time I had done this.  I normally just run it in “A” and am trying to get the tuning = in so I can copy that to “B”.

Also, when I test the = injectors…I have only done this at idle, if I disable the secondary, it stumbles, = but keeps running.  When I disable the primary, it would die if I = didn’t immediately switch it back.  Sounds like the cold start might not = be engaging on the primary???  Does anybody have any = suggestions?

 

Those of you who have had your MAP = table corrupted, was a switch between CPUs and or coil testing involved prior = to the problem?  Could there be some involvement = here???

 

Bill B

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