X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTPS id 4673259 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 08:38:33 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.110; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.47]) by EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110]) with mapi; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 05:37:57 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 05:39:01 -0800 Subject: RE: SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Thread-Topic: SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Thread-Index: AcuzEWkgzSprXR3UR9usHgecNviGqwAFHBbg Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F35B40FFEXVMBX0035e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F35B40FFEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd say you are 100% correct Ed. My engine is the same; my pre-flight firs= t check of secondary-only injectors will cause the engine to stumble, but i= n my case not actually quit. The colder the OAT/engine more severe the stum= ble ... maybe allow the engine to warm a bit more, take the rpms above the = staging point to wet the secondary runners, then throttle back to test the = secondary-only function. Jeff From: Ed Anderson [mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:12 AM Subject: SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table = corruption? Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are running only on the primary i= njectors, if you turn off the secondary there is absolutely no effect at al= l (provided you are below the staging point) - because they are not injecti= ng. However, if you have power to both primary and secondary injectors and= turnoff the primary injectors - the secondary injectors will kick in (or s= hould) and start injecting. But, what I have found is that if I don't' immedately turn the mixture cont= rol to full rich immediately after turning off the primary injectors - the = engine will die. If in immedately enrich the engine will cough and then st= art to run at which point I must lean it back and then the engine will idl= e fine on the secondary injectors. My theory is there is no fuel flowing i= n the secondary runners because the secondary injectors are not firing - so= for an instance there is nothing but air flowing into the combustion chamb= er which can cause it to die, unless you quickly over enrich it. (but the = theory could be all wet {:>) Ed From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Chris, what is the latest scoop on the stuck apex seals? Did they free up? I currently have every thing (cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up so = I can't investigate this further right now, but the last time I taxied my p= lane, I noticed that it was really lean at idle (took mixture knob to 4 pm)= and when I ran it up, I could only get a little over 6K (previous would go= to 6900!) rpm and the mixture knob full rich would not bring the mixture b= ar graph visible. I am pretty certain that my MAP table is corrupted. Thi= s is the first time this has happened to me. I am pretty certain that it was the time before that I switched the CPU fro= m "A" to "B" and tested my coils. This was the first time I had done this.= I normally just run it in "A" and am trying to get the tuning in so I can= copy that to "B". Also, when I test the injectors...I have only done this at idle, if I disab= le the secondary, it stumbles, but keeps running. When I disable the prima= ry, it would die if I didn't immediately switch it back. Sounds like the c= old start might not be engaging on the primary??? Does anybody have any su= ggestions? Those of you who have had your MAP table corrupted, was a switch between CP= Us and or coil testing involved prior to the problem? Could there be some = involvement here??? Bill B __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5783 (20110113) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5783 (20110113) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F35B40FFEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I’d say you are 100= % correct Ed.  My engine is the same; my pre-flight first check of sec= ondary-only injectors will cause the engine to stumble, but in my case not actually quit. The colder the OAT/engine more severe the stumble ̷= 0; maybe allow the engine to warm a bit more, take the rpms above the stagi= ng point to wet the secondary runners, then throttle back to test the secon= dary-only function.

Jeff

 <= /p>

From: Ed Ander= son [mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:12 AM
Subject: SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP= table corruption?

 

Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are running only =  on the primary injectors, if you turn off the secondary there is abso= lutely no effect at all (provided you are below the staging point) - because they are not injecting.  However, if you have power to both= primary and secondary injectors and turnoff the primary injectors - the se= condary injectors will kick in (or should) and start injecting.=

 

But, what I have found is that if I don’t' immedatel= y turn the mixture control to full rich immediately after turning off the p= rimary injectors - the engine will die.  If in immedately enrich the engine will cough and then start to run at which point I must lean it = back  and then the engine will idle fine on the secondary injectors.&n= bsp; My theory is there is no fuel flowing in the secondary runners because= the secondary injectors are not firing - so for an instance there is nothing but air flowing into the combustion ch= amber which can cause it to die, unless you quickly over enrich it.  (= but the theory could be all wet {:>)

 

Ed

 

Sent:= Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM

Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption?=

 

Chris, what is the latest scoo= p on the stuck apex seals?  Did they free up?

 

I currently have every thing (= cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up so I can’t investigate this= further right now, but the last time I taxied my plane, I noticed that it was really lean at idle (took mixture knob to 4 pm) and when I ran= it up, I could only get a little over 6K (previous would go to 6900!) rpm = and the mixture knob full rich would not bring the mixture bar graph visibl= e.  I am pretty certain that my MAP table is corrupted.  This is the first time this has happened to = me.

 

I am pretty certain that it wa= s the time before that I switched the CPU from “A” to “B&= #8221; and tested my coils.  This was the first time I had done this.&= nbsp; I normally just run it in “A” and am trying to get the tuning in so I can= copy that to “B”.

Also, when I test the injector= s…I have only done this at idle, if I disable the secondary, it stumb= les, but keeps running.  When I disable the primary, it would die if I didn’t immediately switch it back.  Sounds like the co= ld start might not be engaging on the primary???  Does anybody have an= y suggestions?

 

Those of you who have had your= MAP table corrupted, was a switch between CPUs and or coil testing involve= d prior to the problem?  Could there be some involvement here???

 

Bill B



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

This message, and the docum= ents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain pr= ivileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strict= ly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our = internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.
 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F35B40FFEXVMBX0035e_--