X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4672923 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 00:13:15 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=pepdxKapwHuwCZNFD5uob2wvham6E+RljB0uXw08FdQ= c=1 sm=0 a=lw3a74aT6z4A:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=z2qR9WYefjzR9Jv642EA:9 a=vjeEeYQijvjrZ3ml340A:7 a=7BWRzSQo57KaGqDCZOsSdsNR86cA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=JxVQXqZH46xDwJZkGRcA:9 a=NDPXxJiWBM7t_euAG2oA:7 a=yiK_aCMk-4W4TUIFtxc6slfDesIA:4 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:49741] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 2A/54-19545-8C98E2D4; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 05:12:40 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: SEcondary injector idle was: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 00:12:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBB2B6.90660C30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBB2B6.90660C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are running only on the = primary injectors, if you turn off the secondary there is absolutely no = effect at all (provided you are below the staging point) - because they = are not injecting. However, if you have power to both primary and = secondary injectors and turnoff the primary injectors - the secondary = injectors will kick in (or should) and start injecting. But, what I have found is that if I don't' immedately turn the mixture = control to full rich immediately after turning off the primary injectors = - the engine will die. If in immedately enrich the engine will cough = and then start to run at which point I must lean it back and then the = engine will idle fine on the secondary injectors. My theory is there is = no fuel flowing in the secondary runners because the secondary injectors = are not firing - so for an instance there is nothing but air flowing = into the combustion chamber which can cause it to die, unless you = quickly over enrich it. (but the theory could be all wet {:>) Ed From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table corruption? Chris, what is the latest scoop on the stuck apex seals? Did they free = up? =20 I currently have every thing (cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up = so I can't investigate this further right now, but the last time I = taxied my plane, I noticed that it was really lean at idle (took mixture = knob to 4 pm) and when I ran it up, I could only get a little over 6K = (previous would go to 6900!) rpm and the mixture knob full rich would = not bring the mixture bar graph visible. I am pretty certain that my = MAP table is corrupted. This is the first time this has happened to me. =20 I am pretty certain that it was the time before that I switched the CPU = from "A" to "B" and tested my coils. This was the first time I had done = this. I normally just run it in "A" and am trying to get the tuning in = so I can copy that to "B".=20 Also, when I test the injectors.I have only done this at idle, if I = disable the secondary, it stumbles, but keeps running. When I disable = the primary, it would die if I didn't immediately switch it back. = Sounds like the cold start might not be engaging on the primary??? Does = anybody have any suggestions? =20 Those of you who have had your MAP table corrupted, was a switch between = CPUs and or coil testing involved prior to the problem? Could there be = some involvement here??? =20 Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0111_01CBB2B6.90660C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, my experience is that at idle, you are = running only=20  on the primary injectors, if you turn off the secondary there is=20 absolutely no effect at all (provided you are below the staging point) - = because=20 they are not injecting.  However, if you have power to both primary = and=20 secondary injectors and turnoff the primary injectors - the secondary = injectors=20 will kick in (or should) and start injecting.
 
But, what I have found is that if I don=92t' = immedately turn=20 the mixture control to full rich immediately after turning off the = primary=20 injectors - the engine will die.  If in immedately enrich the = engine will=20 cough and then start to run at which point I must lean it back  and = then=20 the engine will idle fine on the secondary injectors.  My theory is = there=20 is no fuel flowing in the secondary runners because the secondary = injectors are=20 not firing - so for an instance there is nothing but air flowing into = the=20 combustion chamber which can cause it to die, unless you quickly over = enrich=20 it.  (but the theory could be all wet {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:45 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Apex seals and MAP table=20 corruption?

Chris, what = is the=20 latest scoop on the stuck apex seals?  Did they free=20 up?

 

I currently = have every=20 thing (cowl, inspections plates, etc.) opened up so I can=92t = investigate this=20 further right now, but the last time I taxied my plane, I noticed that = it was=20 really lean at idle (took mixture knob to 4 pm) and when I ran it up, I = could=20 only get a little over 6K (previous would go to 6900!) rpm and the = mixture knob=20 full rich would not bring the mixture bar graph visible.  I am = pretty=20 certain that my MAP table is corrupted.  This is the first time = this has=20 happened to me.

 

I am pretty = certain=20 that it was the time before that I switched the CPU from =93A=94 to = =93B=94 and tested=20 my coils.  This was the first time I had done this.  I = normally just=20 run it in =93A=94 and am trying to get the tuning in so I can copy that = to =93B=94.=20

Also, when I = test the=20 injectors=85I have only done this at idle, if I disable the secondary, = it=20 stumbles, but keeps running.  When I disable the primary, it would = die if I=20 didn=92t immediately switch it back.  Sounds like the cold start = might not be=20 engaging on the primary???  Does anybody have any=20 suggestions?

 

Those of you = who have=20 had your MAP table corrupted, was a switch between CPUs and or coil = testing=20 involved prior to the problem?  Could there be some involvement=20 here???

 

Bill=20 B

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