X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm24-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with SMTP id 4668944 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:26:28 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.226; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [98.139.91.61] by nm24.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2011 16:25:54 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.50] by tm1.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2011 16:25:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1050.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2011 16:25:54 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 98365.73801.bm@omp1050.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 85143 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2011 16:25:53 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1294590353; bh=v5HQqBFlLAiYDBaDze5ZCYXMdyPAYv83q3G7jdeGEWI=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=roTdu0e6EgzputLNuPj5IqQTx4qbHbHkZPIQQQ+Jj0weZmQkTPZeklfK+hOs23vIDZq2ZzE0UWF4BBAtQr+2JHt3vljIcJCXmANtSEcYOOO8F6RwA10TunhaavJ1sJ1+YH9qi71MN3leuS8QtXjadSpGIjqnT1MTmHwfOE/W5zg= Received: from [192.168.10.5] (ceengland@98.95.243.168 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 09 Jan 2011 08:25:53 -0800 PST X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy X-YMail-OSG: LAmOVi8VM1kkYR0bdJubsHH01FZN6oK9dN6IqfPHk0RmaN. KLkNjd_vZSURLjW00RJZbhSJq8mJ6fbL..3rRVqrnGJ1aK6oIkNI6xCKP.pZ j9bg5ug6NQU1HO3MlZWgPE_DxwcaE5fsf7zNYKHkEOKrlBZE_OzQNfLYWwJY HZnNucZsRCXUoVI988D4nVcWUv_3TV076TkN6_Ew6UTsuTGqlLYSaxvSM7E6 4dPyfoKZXGopfqq6fNb4kgBdy3zq43uaGQDZM9ILqOA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4D29E191.8090606@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:25:53 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: LS2 "Yukon" coil report References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050207000104020403080900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050207000104020403080900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 1/9/2011 9:27 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/9/2011 8:52:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > msteitle@gmail.com writes: > > Mark; > > It's great that this has have resolved the occasional misses for > you. It's very puzzling to me that my engine (and apparently many > others) has always run smooth at any condition over about 1500 rpm > with the same controller and the D580 coils. Has this only been an > issue with the P-port? > > Al > > Do these coils have circuitry installed so as to run on low voltage? > Has anyone tested the various models on a scope to see the output? > Peak voltage and burn time? > Anything used in a car or truck has had every extra penny removed from > it before you see it. It will perform to the lowest possible standard. > A very high percentage will fail just outside the warrantee period. GM > is really good at this. We raced against Ford Probe owned by a drive > line engineer for GM and were told us that he was nearly alone in his > division, and that drive line vibration problems were solved by > engineers in India. > The instant GM figures out how to run an engine with no ignition > system you will never see one again. GM did not go out of business > because they produced too high a quality equipment. > Last year I sold my GMC 427 Crewcab towing vehicle for pennies at our > yard sale.. It had its 3rd GM paint job blow off into the wind. And, > it left on a rollback because the 4th set of Chinese brake lines had > vanished in a cloud of rust dust. GM put on three sets and the > American motorcycle museum put on a set. DID GM care about who I ran > into when the brake lines failed? Not at all. They have two cost > curves crossing on a graph, and when losses from law suites get higher > than savings from Chinese parts, then they will care. But not now that > its Government motors. Your coils were designed by electrical > engineers, Lawyers, you, the elected officials of the united states, > and an army of brainless tree huggers. And still there is a misfire? > Seems impossible. > But I could be completely wrong. > Lynn E. Hanover Or, maybe just a bit myopic? Anyone who thinks problem A is limited to group X, is failing to look beyond group X. This is especially applicable to cost curves. And in the case of ignition coils, it would take extraordinary engineering talent/effort to design coils that would fail just outside the warranty period, but would *only* hard fail. For decades, cars in the US of A have been required by federal law to go far past the warranty period & still pass federal emissions tests. Soft failures would almost certainly cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests, causing massive recalls, driving that cost curve off the chart in the wrong direction. I'm a libertarian, but I'm a *pragmatic* libertarian. I have no doubt in my mind that without government mandate, I'd still be forced to buy the same 11 mpg vehicle today that I drove in the late '60s/early '70s. I also have no doubt that if the corporations hadn't been allowed to purchase our legislators, I'd be driving a 45-50 mpg medium size car instead of a 25-35 mpg car. GM went out of business because they managed to tomorrow's stock price on the market and signed contracts with their labor force that they had no intention of fulfilling. Charlie --------------050207000104020403080900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 1/9/2011 9:27 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 1/9/2011 8:52:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, msteitle@gmail.com writes:

Mark;

 

It’s great that this has have resolved the occasional misses for you.  It’s very puzzling to me that my engine (and apparently many others) has always run smooth at any condition over about 1500 rpm with the same controller and the D580 coils. Has this only been an issue with the P-port?

Al

Do these coils have circuitry installed so as to run on low voltage? Has anyone tested the various models on a scope to see the output? Peak voltage and burn time?
 
Anything used in a car or truck has had every extra penny removed from it before you see it. It will perform to the lowest possible standard. A very high percentage will fail just outside the warrantee period. GM is really good at this. We raced against Ford Probe owned by a drive line engineer for GM and were told us that he was nearly alone in his division, and that drive line vibration problems were solved by engineers in India.
 
The instant GM figures out how to run an engine with no ignition system you will never see one again. GM did not go out of business because they produced too high a quality equipment. 
 
Last year I sold my GMC 427 Crewcab towing vehicle for pennies at our yard sale.. It had its 3rd GM paint job blow off into the wind. And, it left on a rollback because the 4th set of Chinese brake lines had vanished in a cloud of rust dust. GM put on three sets and the American motorcycle museum put on a set. DID GM care about who I ran into when the brake lines failed? Not at all. They have two cost curves crossing on a graph, and when losses from law suites get higher than savings from Chinese parts, then they will care. But not now that its Government motors. Your coils were designed by electrical engineers, Lawyers, you,  the elected officials of the united states, and an army of brainless tree huggers. And still there is a misfire?
Seems impossible.
 
But I could be completely wrong.
 
Lynn E. Hanover 
Or, maybe just a bit myopic?

Anyone who thinks problem A is limited to group X, is failing to look beyond group X. This is especially applicable to cost curves. And in the case of ignition coils, it would take extraordinary engineering talent/effort to design coils that would fail just outside the warranty period, but would *only* hard fail. For decades, cars in the US of A have been required by federal law to go far past the warranty period & still pass federal emissions tests. Soft failures would almost certainly cause the vehicle to fail emissions tests, causing massive recalls, driving that cost curve off the chart in the wrong direction.

I'm a libertarian, but I'm a *pragmatic* libertarian. I have no doubt in my mind that without government mandate, I'd still be forced to buy the same 11 mpg vehicle today that I drove in the late '60s/early '70s. I also have no doubt that if the corporations hadn't been allowed to purchase our legislators, I'd be driving a 45-50 mpg medium size car instead of a 25-35 mpg car.

GM went out of business because they managed to tomorrow's stock price on the market and signed contracts with their labor force that they had no intention of fulfilling.

Charlie
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