Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #53521
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Hard hot start problem possibly found.
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:49:35 -0500
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Try 50% auto trans fluid and 50% acetone mixed together to free the seals.

 

Bill B

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of cbeazley
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:42 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hard hot start problem possibly found.

 

In a message dated 1/5/2011 9:31:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cbarber@texasattorney.net writes:

I may be the current leader of discovering failure modes in this allegedly robust engine <sigh> :-) before flight. Ed, I leave the gliding championship to you.  I must admit that the idea of pulling the engine is not quite as daunting since I have moved past the proof of concept mode and have got my flight ready install pretty much set.  This makes the engine removal, and then the re-install much more of a methodical process than a somewhat overwhelming dismantling...guess practice makes perfect.  <sigh>.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

 

 

 

Perhaps not the world leader. I built an engine that ended up in a Mini Cooper, in an "Inline" orientation with a Narrowed Ford 8" rear axle. Front suspension was from a Chevy Chevette. Same one was in the Corvair and the Pontiac Fiero. Home built 3" square tube chassis. He let it sit for two years then ran a weekend of Autocross with no oil pressure. Thought it was the gage no working. He gave that rotary away and put in a Chevy V-8.

 

The rotary has poor compression due to long seal lengths and many end gaps. It does have enough compression ratio, but that is a calculation that leaves out any leak rate. The rotary has a high leak rate.

Rate must include a time factor, and that time factor is how fast can the starter turn the engine. It can turn the engine faster with poor compression. It has that, so the starter sounds very effective. The poor starting with the prop installed vice the better starting without the prop should be evidence of this.

 

The large combustion chamber produces poor fuel vaporization, and many fuel droplets will condense and cling to the interior surfaces. This is a very lean mixture as far as starting is concerned. The correct amount of fuel per pound may have been injected to run the engine at a fast idle, but it is of no value without vaporization.

 

A faster starting RPM reduces the time available in the leak rate and reduces leakage, improving compression, raising charge temperature (heat of compression) and improving starting performance. 

If the vaporization improves, the effective mixture is enrichened.

 

The rotors are made of Nodular iron. The apex seals of cast iron with electron beam heat treating of the wear faces. They are a close fit in the grooves. Both exhaust ports and intake ports are always open to the outside world. As fuel droplets flash off they lower the rotor temps and the air gives up its water, inside your engine.

 

The apex seals stick in the grooves the first time they can. Stick a plug in the exhaust pipe right after shut down. Always run the air filter during operation and after shutdown until the engine is cold.

 

I have been building engines and rebuilding other builders engines, since 1980. I have never removed a broken apex seal spring. I suggest that you have a stuck apex seal. Try a freeing product that includes a rust remover like Hydrochloric acid. As soon as the seal comes loose, run the engine for as long as is possible (water temps). Then spray in some motor oil and turn the engine a few revolutions.

 

The acid eats iron rust and nonferrous metals like candy. Wear eye protection and rubber gloves. Outside off the concrete.

 

Motor fuel is a cleaning solvent. Even with a bit of oil in it.

 

The spark plug in use may add to the poor starting problem. If no actual loading is expected like high speed taxi or flying, then the plug heat range is of little matter (medium or retracted tip shape. Gapped at about .020". The multiple ground plugs that look like airplane plugs are easy to short out, and look like a capacitor. A single ground strap (small square wire) shortens rise time and concentrates energy in one location. 

 

Until the engine is broken in, you might premix one Oz. or more per gallon of whatever top oil. Sealing will be great and starting easy.

 

If you remove the rear iron. Clamp all of the stack together with bungees/springs and, or safety wire. Even the rear rotor housing. So long as none of the pieces can move apart, no problems will spring up.

 

Full throttle and load limited to 6,500 RPM, is racing in anybodies book. Nobody in racing uses a spark plug that can be found in a Mazda dealership.

 

Lynn E. Hanover

 

  

Lynn is the pro, he is just being modest ;)

Sounds like stuck seals.  Probably carbon gum-up or minor rust.
What vendors apex seals and springs are these?
Home Depot Zep Industrial purple is a great degreaser.  Acetone is another common remedy.  You may be able to spray or brush it into the apex slots.
If you have access through the exhaust ports, some forced mechanical movement in every direction by tape covered needle nosed pliers may help restore movement and possibly remove surface rust.
Some folks out there have poured acetone through the spark plug holes to get an old (sometimes seized) engine running again.  I've heard of more than a few people complaining about coolant/oil seals later...
Do you recall the apex clearance assuming you rebuilt the engine?  You might be able to check apex clearance in place with feeler gauges while you are at it.

Cheers
Cary

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