X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4665236 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:00:49 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.145; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p05MxoqA000848 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:59:50 -0500 Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.e09.ea6b1cd (55719) for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:59:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic-m22.mail.aol.com (magic-m22.mail.aol.com [172.20.22.195]) by cia-md02.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD022-d9a74d24f7e0141; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 17:59:44 -0500 From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 17:59:44 EST Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Broken tension Bolt To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a9ede.2f381ee0.3a5651e0_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5382 X-AOL-IP: 72.187.199.116 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Lehanover@aol.com --part1_a9ede.2f381ee0.3a5651e0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =20 In a message dated 1/5/2011 8:18:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 jwhaley@datacast.com writes: Okay, thanks Finn; getting the shavings extracted with grease, or a magne= t=20 should work.=20 So, based on your comments about the tension bolts and sealing washers=20 having nothing to do with oil, I have to assume that my rear oil seal is= the=20 source of the leak.=20 With the re-drive, ring gear, etc already off the engine I=E2=80=99ll go= ahead and=20 replace the rear seal.=20 Thanks =E2=80=A6 Jeff =20 Ok here are some more ideas that have worked for me.=20 =20 In the field: if no coolant or oil is exiting the broken bolt hole, glue= =20 the bolt head into the hole with a big supply of silicone sealant and fini= sh=20 the weekend. Work on it at home or, if it really bugs you, drop in the=20 spare engine. Don't tell the driver why you changed engines, only that th= is one=20 is a bit stronger. He will go faster even if this is the slug engine from= =20 last year. =20 The stationary gear bolts should be holding down a disc that covers about= =20 1/3 of each bolt head, so when a bolt breaks the loose head cannot wander= =20 out and get tangled up in anything. Its cheap. It works perfectly. Check for wandering bolt heads during preflight.=20 =20 Slip a magnet on a rod or cable down the hole. Gently turn it left handed= =20 to remove the broken piece. =20 =20 Or, if the broken bolt has a less than smooth surface at the failure =20 point, remove a few threads from the end of the broken bolt so it can be= used as=20 sort of a screw driver. Remove the washer and insert the bolt remains. =20 Gently turn the bolt counter clockwise, or "Lefty-Loosy" feeling for that= =20 clock position where the pieces mate up again. Then apply a few pounds of= =20 pressure to the bolt head while turning it counter clockwise. I have never= =20 failed with this method. However the failure plain may be nearly flat. So= =20 this method is of no value. =20 With a spare (junk) case bolt grind the end to look like a straight slot= =20 screw driver blade. Remove the threads from the last 3/16". Grind out the= =20 center of the blade so only the edges of the blade can touch the broken= end of=20 the bolt. Sharpen the bits of blade in opposite directions. Sort of a two= =20 pronged pitch fork. Install this bolt with a few pounds of pressure and= =20 turn "lefty-Loosy". =20 Or, soak the end of a wood dowel in water, that just fits down the hole an= d=20 extends out of the hole about 5". Make the dowel as to clock location.=20 Mark the iron as well. Hold the dowel firmly against the end of the broke= n=20 bolt. Strike the exposed end of the dowel firmly with a heavy slow moving= =20 hammer. The wet end of the dowel will conform to the failure zone on the= bolt.=20 Hold down firmly and turn the dowel.=20 =20 Or, with a soft iron rod like the center of a 6013 AC welding rod with the= =20 flux removed down a plastic hose or tube (any insulator) the iron rod =20 sharpened at the end. Welder on about 40 amps. Firmly press the rod into= the =20 hole and shut off the welder instantly. Twist out the bolt with the rod.= You=20 can practice on scrap pieces for this. =20 Or, apply a drop of epoxy to the end of a wood dowel and press the dowel= =20 onto the bolt.=20 =20 Or strip down the engine and remover the bolt scrap.=20 =20 Failures are from the bolts ringing like strings on a Harp. Bolts that= =20 fail were probably under torqued just a bit. Otherwise many bolts would = fail=20 not just one. The failure planes tend to be featureless so grip is not =20 available. These are fatigue failures, not tension failures. Thus the smoo= th =20 granular look in the failure path. =20 Drilling a hole for an "Easy Out" also tends to tighten the bolt scrap int= o=20 the hole. If the threads are damaged a bit then the damaged threads enter= =20 the hole and removal will be difficult.=20 =20 The broken ends usually remain in good condition and tend to be loose in= =20 the hole. If the broken end is not rusted then that is good news.=20 =20 Try the easy stuff first. =20 Lynn E. Hanover --part1_a9ede.2f381ee0.3a5651e0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
In a message dated 1/5/2011 8:18:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 jwhaley@datacast.com writes:

Okay, thanks Finn;= getting the=20 shavings extracted with grease, or a magnet should work.

So, based on your co= mments=20 about the tension bolts and sealing washers having nothing to do with oi= l, I=20 have to assume that my rear oil seal is the source of the=20 leak.

With the re-drive,= ring gear,=20 etc already off the engine I=E2=80=99ll go ahead and replace the rear=20 seal.

Thanks =E2=80=A6&nbs= p;  Jeff=20

 

Ok here are some more ideas that have worked for me.
 
In the field: if no coolant or oil is exiting the broken bolt hole,= glue=20 the bolt head into the hole with a big supply of silicone sealant and fini= sh the=20 weekend. Work on it at home or, if it really bugs you, drop in the spare= engine.=20 Don't tell the driver why you changed engines, only that this one is a bit= =20 stronger. He will go faster even if this is the slug engine from last=20 year.
 
The stationary gear bolts should be holding down a disc that covers= about=20 1/3 of each bolt head, so when a bolt breaks the loose head cannot wander= out=20 and get tangled up in anything. Its cheap. It works perfectly.
Check for wandering bolt heads during preflight.
 
Slip a magnet on a rod or cable down the hole. Gently turn it left ha= nded=20 to remove the broken piece.
 
 
Or, if the broken bolt has a less than smooth surface at the fai= lure=20 point, remove a few threads from the end of the broken bolt so it can= be=20 used as sort of a screw driver. Remove the washer and insert the bolt=20 remains.
 
Gently turn the bolt counter clockwise, or "Lefty-Loosy" feeling for= that=20 clock position where the pieces mate up again. Then apply a few pounds of= =20 pressure to the bolt head while turning it counter clockwise. I have never= =20 failed with this method. However the failure plain may be nearly flat. So= this=20 method is of no value.
 
With a spare (junk) case bolt grind the end to look like a straight= slot=20 screw driver blade. Remove the threads from the last 3/16". Grind out the= center=20 of the blade so only the edges of the blade can touch the broken end of th= e=20 bolt. Sharpen the bits of blade in opposite directions. Sort of a two pron= ged=20 pitch fork. Install this bolt with a few pounds of pressure and turn=20 "lefty-Loosy".
 
Or, soak the end of a wood dowel in water, that just fits down the ho= le and=20 extends out of the hole about 5". Make the dowel as to clock location. Mar= k the=20 iron as well. Hold the dowel firmly against the end of the broken bolt. St= rike=20 the exposed end of the dowel firmly with a heavy slow moving hammer. The= wet end=20 of the dowel will conform to the failure zone on the bolt. Hold down firml= y and=20 turn the dowel.
 
Or, with a soft iron rod like the center of a 6013 AC welding rod wit= h the=20 flux removed down a plastic hose or tube (any insulator) the iron rod= =20 sharpened at the end. Welder on about 40 amps. Firmly press the rod into= the=20 hole and shut off the welder instantly. Twist out the bolt with the rod.= You can=20 practice on scrap pieces for this.
 
Or, apply a drop of epoxy to the end of a wood dowel and press the do= wel=20 onto the bolt.
 
Or strip down the engine and remover the bolt scrap.
 
Failures are from the bolts ringing  like strings on a Harp. Bol= ts=20 that fail were probably under torqued just a bit. Otherwise many bolts wou= ld=20 fail not just one. The failure planes tend to be featureless so grip= is not=20 available. These are fatigue failures, not tension failures. Thus the smoo= th=20 granular look in the failure path.
 
Drilling a hole for an "Easy Out" also tends to tighten the bolt scra= p into=20 the hole. If the threads are damaged a bit then the damaged threads enter= the=20 hole and removal will be difficult.
 
The broken ends usually remain in good condition and tend to be loose= in=20 the hole. If the broken end is not rusted then that is good news.
 
Try the easy stuff first.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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