X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm23-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.224] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with SMTP id 4664212 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 00:18:13 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.224; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.91.70] by nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2011 05:17:37 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.12] by tm10.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2011 05:17:37 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1012.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2011 05:17:37 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 118945.19294.bm@omp1012.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 93292 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2011 05:17:37 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1294204656; bh=2SFbS9yrLorfErRkhckOfyEPdT/1D44jQdOXYmzQQAw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JztxxPhddtMnOBVsMJO92daeaoTMnM3MLRF89YTcGAmb/0PnCaJ8kRfRM6UGRnj2whGlgUt1C0ayTh1KLCBGs4HAo04iJSnmXnqnR7jrE9VDDjN7TLCpoh3RTxnY9EvSTFs364LXKvYAJQhdnGoaW9HcuV2lbD4ShlXr4JE4t18= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=taokqgnKa/Q7BzFSX5A6HF9TtK9lRJuJTjuuJpaY+8IPiklCqfTMwFXVre0RIw3uDaE7SRqfsAdxa2Re/yv1NtrCX3X8ILGRHIpQuFzUXGsUXD0weXN4aatPIo4sksmWqOabmPcPc4Dtn8B0nfJU9bLq3dLzQEj1TCWvlzYc3U0=; Message-ID: <969524.90187.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: pWmN94QVM1lSUpdWPzUMnggf1w9pUXSNMHj04GZiqmdjqzi ZD0SW4_EgdO2nqJ7NXrTvd1mWujmus8f.vQn2SrbWyyhfQsT2E2NEw5G9VrP vylqt8XXrzHX_vZP3WeRpcoVioRilf0aUdeEc6869j_bDGKZxefTYlrRqJ9. VxIk1ZU2UdkT5XZAvt9R6JCrHwcW6tvdWdGnDzhk5MUVEojgbkqgDKHRQHUJ Ru50lX14IIRPpNh.cjFmdba0v4h4OU8CBJzkVTvKE.unCca6sEDm6Kp2Ac4L D7LPZ79Gzbw-- Received: from [208.114.41.2] by web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 21:17:36 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2011 21:17:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: GM Coil Comparison To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-164887228-1294204656=:90187" --0-164887228-1294204656=:90187 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Group,=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Found these D585 Coils on EBay...........= .....=0A=0Ahttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-OEM-IGNITION-COIL-D585-COSMET= IC-BLEMISH-/400184566891?pt=3DMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=3Dite= m5d2cdbe46b=0A=0A=C2=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"1= 3B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold= =0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________= _=0AFrom: Mark Steitle =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft= =0ASent: Tue, January 4, 2011 4:46:51 PM=0ASu= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison=0A=0AI forgot to include the pric= e. =C2=A0Rock Auto has a number of brands; I chose the =0Aones for $30.79/e= a. =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0AMark =C2=A0=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:35 PM, Mark= Steitle wrote:=0A=0ARock Auto.com =C2=A0 =0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>=0A>On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Bill Bradburry =0Awrote:=0A>=0A>Mark,=0A>>Care to share your source and price??=0A>= >=C2=A0=0A>>Bill B=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=0A________________________________=0A=0A= >>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of =0A>>Mark Steitle=0A>>Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:53 PM=0A>>= =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Com= parison=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Yesterday I ordered 6 new D585 coils for my 20B. =C2= =A0It looks like they mount =0A>>differently than the D580 coils. =C2=A0Doe= s anyone have any pictures they could share =0A>>of how they mounted their = D585 coils? =C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>FWIW, the old D580 coils have close to 20= 0 hrs on them with no failures. =C2=A0I =0A>>mounted them down low on the m= otor mount. =C2=A0The lack of vibration and heat may =0A>>account for their= longevity. =C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Mark S.=0A>>On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:53 P= M, Steven W. Boese wrote:=0A>>Kelly,=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>My sp= ark plug life has been the same with the stock 13B coils and the D585 =0A>>= coils.=C2=A0 I have had SAG with the D585 coils also.=C2=A0 As I discussed = at the Paducah =0A>>fly in, SAG does not appear to be a spark plug misfire = or failure to spark.=C2=A0 The =0A>>effect on EGT and coolant temperatures = is the opposite for SAG as opposed to no =0A>>spark with either the trailin= g or leading plug.=C2=A0 I have seen evidence that SAG =0A>>may be (similar= to?) preignition caused by decreased thermal conductivity =0A>>between the= center electrode and the tip of the ceramic.=C2=A0 This decreased thermal = =0A>>conductivity results from corrosion between the ceramic and the center= electrode =0A>>and this corrosion is accelerated by the use of leaded fuel= . =C2=A0There is also some =0A>>evidence for decreased thermal conductivity= of the center electrode copper core =0A>>as the spark plugs age.=0A>>=C2= =A0=0A>>Steve Boese=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>Sent: Monday= , January 03, 2011 1:17 PM=0A>>=0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>>Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Steve,=0A>>=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Good to start the year off with an interesring and educational string != ! =0A>>Steve to shine=0A>>some light on Al's question about electrode erosi= on and possible "SAG" reduction =0A>>what=0A>>has been your experience with= plug life and have you had SAG with the D585 =0A>>coil/igniters??=0A>>=C2= =A0=0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ En= gine=0A>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBO= NETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=0A_________________________= _______=0A=0A>>From:Al Gietzen =0A>>=0A>>To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft =0A>>Sent: Mon, January 3, 201= 1 1:38:42 PM=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison=0A>>Aside from= the higher spark current from the D585s eroding the sparkplug =0A>>electro= des more quickly; do we have evidence that it will, in fact, improve =0A>>p= erformance? Perhaps it is a cure for SAG.=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>BTW; my 6 D581 coi= ls (Mounted atop my 20B) have been in use since my first =0A>>engine start = back in about 2001. =C2=A0They have survived many hours of ground test =0A>= >runs where cowl temps exceeded 150F (at times I=E2=80=99m sure reached 190= + for short =0A>>periods); and 200 fight hours with nary a single failure. = In-cowl temps are =0A>>typically about 150 during climb-out; and generally = 120-140 during cruise. =C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Perhaps it helps that they get= plenty of air flow (during flight) being pretty =0A>>much in blast from th= e rad exit.=C2=A0 I generally run the rad aux fan for awhile =0A>>after shu= tdown; but I=E2=80=99d guess high temp is less of an issue when they are no= t =0A>>operating.=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Al=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>-----Original Message---= --=0A>>From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]= On Behalf =0A>>Of Tracy=0A>>Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:13 AM=0A>>To:= Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison= =0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>I highly recommend the air cooled enclosure as Steve Boese = (and I) use.=C2=A0 This is =0A>>especially important on the D581 and the st= ock RX-8 Renesis coils.=C2=A0 The Renesis =0A>>coils have a fairly high fai= lure rate even on the car.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The D581 would only =0A>>last a few = hours at 150 F but I have about 250 hours on them with the airbox at =0A>>1= 20F.=0A>>=0A>>Don't forget to do the coil disable test to check for failed = coils prior to =0A>>every flight.=0A>>=0A>>Tracy=0A>>On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at= 10:53 AM, Steven W. Boese wrote:=0A>>I have about 100 ho= urs on D585 coils and have had no problems with them so far.=C2=A0 =0A>>The= temperature in their airblasted enclosure is usually less than 100 degrees= =0A>>in flight and has gotten up to 120 degrees during taxi.=0A>>=C2=A0=0A= >>Steve Boese=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>From:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of =0A>>Tracy=0A>>Sent: Monday, January 03,= 2011 8:41 AM=0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : GM Coil Comparison=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>I have a set of the D585 coils but have= only evaluated them on the bench for =0A>>compatibility with the EC2/3=C2= =A0 (they are).=0A>>=0A>>I do know that the previous version of the truck c= oils (D581) are not as =0A>>reliable as the D580 (Corvette) coils.=0A>>=0A>= >Tracy=0A>>On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Kelly Troyer wr= ote:=0A>>Happy=C2=A0New Year Group,=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A little info regarding the various GM ignition coils th= at many of us =0A>>use on our=0A>>Rotary engines=C2=A0with Tracy's EC2 and = EC3 boxes that I thought might be of =0A>>interest=0A>>to those that have n= ot seen it before.............Tracy would like your comments =0A>>on the=0A= >>the apparently big performance difference between the LS1 verses the LS2 = Truck=0A>>coils and if an upgrade would be worth the $$ especially for thos= e of us that =0A>>have=0A>>or plan on Turbocharging in light of the higher = combustion chamber =0A>>pressures.......=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>ht= tp://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm#ls1=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>http://video.googl= e.com/videoplay?docid=3D-6218245369765754251&hl=3Den=0A>>=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>Ke= lly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4= E50 Turbo=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>>=C2=A0=0A>=0A --0-164887228-1294204656=:90187 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Group,
=0A
     Found = these D585 Coils on EBay................
=0A
 
=0A
<= A href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-OEM-IGNITION-COIL-D585-COSMETI= C-BLEMISH-/400184566891?pt=3DMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=3D= item5d2cdbe46b">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-OEM-IGNITION-COIL-D585-C= OSMETIC-BLEMISH-/400184566891?pt=3DMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&h= ash=3Ditem5d2cdbe46b
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backpla= te/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

= =0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gma= il.com>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, January 4, 2011 4:46:51 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil= Comparison

I forgot to include the price.  Rock Auto ha= s a number of brands; I chose the ones for $30.79/ea.   =0A

=0A
Mark  

=0A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2= 011 at 4:35 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Rock Auto.com   =0A

=0A
=
=0A
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Bill Bradbu= rry <bbradbu= rry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Mark,

=0A

Care to share your source and price??=

=0A

 

=0A

Bill B

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 3:53 PM=

=0A
=0A
=0A

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=  

=0A

Yesterday I ordered 6 new D585= coils for my 20B.  It looks like they mount differently than the D580= coils.  Does anyone have any pictures they could share of how they mo= unted their D585 coils?  

=0A
=0A

FWIW, the old= D580 coils have close to 200 hrs on them with no failures.  I mounted= them down low on the motor mount.  The lack of vibration and heat may= account for their longevity.  

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

Mark S.

=0A
=0A

On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu> wrote:

=0A
=0A
=0A= Kelly,

=0A=

 

= =0A

My spark plug life has= been the same with the stock 13B coils and the D585 coils.  I have ha= d SAG with the D585 coils also.  As I discussed at the Paducah fly in,= SAG does not appear to be a spark plug misfire or failure to spark.  = The effect on EGT and coolant temperatures is the opposite for SAG as oppos= ed to no spark with either the trailing or leading plug.  I have seen = evidence that SAG may be (similar to?) preignition caused by decreased ther= mal conductivity between the center electrode and the tip of the ceramic.&n= bsp; This decreased thermal conductivity results from corrosion between the= ceramic and the center electrode and this corrosion is accelerated by the = use of leaded fuel.  There is also some evidence for decreased thermal= conductivity of the center electrode copper core as the spark plugs age.

=0A

 

=0A

Steve Boese

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

From:<= /SPAN> Rotary mot= ors in aircraft [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Kelly Troyer
Sen= t: Monday, January 03, 2011 1:17 PM

=0A
=0A=


To: R= otary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison

<= /DIV>=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

Steve,

=0A
=0A
=0A

   Good to start the year off with an interesring and educati= onal string !! Steve to shine

=0A
=0A

some light on Al's question about electrode erosion and possible "SA= G" reduction what

=0A
=0A

has b= een your experience with plug life and have you had SAG with the D585 coil/= igniters??

=0A
=0A

 

=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DE= LTA JD2" (Eventually)=

=0A
=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MIST= RAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo<= /SPAN>

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A

From:<= /B> Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>

=0A=0A


To:<= /B> Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 1:38:42 PM

=0A
=0A
=0A

Subject:<= /SPAN> [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison

=0A=0A
=0A
=0A

Aside fro= m the higher spark current from the D585s eroding the sparkplug electrodes = more quickly; do we have evidence that it will, in fact, improve performanc= e? Perhaps it is a cure for SAG.

=0A

<= FONT color=3Dblue size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

=0A

BTW; my 6 D581 coils (Mounted atop my 20B) have been in u= se since my first engine start back in about 2001.  They have survived= many hours of ground test runs where cowl temps exceeded 150F (at times I= =E2=80=99m sure reached 190+ for short periods); and 200 fight hours with n= ary a single failure. In-cowl temps are typically about 150 during climb-ou= t; and generally 120-140 during cruise.  

=0A

 

=0A

Perhaps it helps that they get plenty of = air flow (during flight) being pretty much in blast from the rad exit. = ; I generally run the rad aux fan for awhile after shutdown; but I=E2=80=99= d guess high temp is less of an issue when they are not operating.

=0A

 

=0A

Al

=0A=

<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> 

=0A

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircra= ft [mailto:flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Monday,= January 03, 2011 8:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison

=0A

 

=0A

I highly re= commend the air cooled enclosure as Steve Boese (and I) use.  This is = especially important on the D581 and the stock RX-8 Renesis coils.  Th= e Renesis coils have a fairly high failure rate even on the car.  = ; The D581 would only last a few hours at 150 F but I have about 250 hours = on them with the airbox at 120F.

Don't forget to do the coil disable= test to check for failed coils prior to every flight.

Tracy<= /FONT>

=0A
=0A

On Mon,= Jan 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Steven W. Boese <SBo= ese@uwyo.edu> wrote:

=0A
=0A
=0A

I have= about 100 hours on D585 coils and have had no problems with them so far.&n= bsp; The temperature in their airblasted enclosure is usually less than 100= degrees in flight and has gotten up to 120 degrees during taxi.

=0A

 

=0A

Steve Boese

= =0A

 

=0A
=0A

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Co= mparison

=0A

 

=0A

I have a set of the D585 coils but have only eva= luated them on the bench for compatibility with the EC2/3  (they are).=

I do know that the previous version of the truck coils (D581) are n= ot as reliable as the D580 (Corvette) coils.

Tracy

= =0A
=0A

On Sun, Jan 2, 20= 11 at 2:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net&= gt; wrote:

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Happy N= ew Year Group,

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

        A little info reg= arding the various GM ignition coils that many of us use on our

=0A
=0A

Rotary engines with Tracy's EC2 and EC3 boxes t= hat I thought might be of interest

=0A
=0A

to tho= se that have not seen it before.............Tracy would like your comments = on the

=0A
=0A

the apparently big performance dif= ference between the LS1 verses the LS2 Truck

=0A=0A

coils and if an upgrade would be worth the $$ especially for those of u= s that have

=0A
=0A

= or plan on Turbocharging in l= ight of the higher combustion chamber pressures....... <= /P>

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

 <= /FONT>

=0A
=0A

http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm#ls1

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

http= ://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D-6218245369765754251&hl=3Den

=0A
=0A


 

=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (= Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_B= ackplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

<= FONT color=3Dblack size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman">"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

<= /DIV>
=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

 



--0-164887228-1294204656=:90187--