X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4664065 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:07:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da02.mx.aol.com (imo-da02.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.200]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p0507F1j003183 for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:07:15 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.c55.74cd5203 (43906) for ; Tue, 4 Jan 2011 19:07:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.170]) by cia-dc07.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADC073-b2504d23b62a1ba; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:07:11 -0500 Received: from Webmail-d121 (webmail-d121.sim.aol.com [205.188.108.130]) by smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE035-b2504d23b62a1ba; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:07:06 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:07:06 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 74.110.91.118 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD7A839F4FBC4C_AD4_B711_Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33069-STANDARD Received: from 74.110.91.118 by Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com (205.188.108.130) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:07:06 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD7A839F489829-AD4-4752@Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD7A839F4FBC4C_AD4_B711_Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" As are some Volvos and Audis. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: wrjjrs@aol.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 3:47 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison Several Susie are 5 cylinders. Bill Jepson Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless -----Original message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 23:33:22 GMT+00:00 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison What has 5 cylinders??? =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 6:26 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison =20 Here's one idea. =20 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/272465-Converted-95-S6-igniti= on-to-GM-Delphi-D585-coils =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Mark Steitle Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2011 2:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison Yesterday I ordered 6 new D585 coils for my 20B. It looks like they mount= differently than the D580 coils. Does anyone have any pictures they coul= d share of how they mounted their D585 coils? =20 =20 FWIW, the old D580 coils have close to 200 hrs on them with no failures.= I mounted them down low on the motor mount. The lack of vibration and= heat may account for their longevity. =20 =20 Mark S. On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: Kelly, =20 My spark plug life has been the same with the stock 13B coils and the D585= coils. I have had SAG with the D585 coils also. As I discussed at the= Paducah fly in, SAG does not appear to be a spark plug misfire or failure= to spark. The effect on EGT and coolant temperatures is the opposite for= SAG as opposed to no spark with either the trailing or leading plug. I= have seen evidence that SAG may be (similar to?) preignition caused by de= creased thermal conductivity between the center electrode and the tip of= the ceramic. This decreased thermal conductivity results from corrosion= between the ceramic and the center electrode and this corrosion is accele= rated by the use of leaded fuel. There is also some evidence for decrease= d thermal conductivity of the center electrode copper core as the spark pl= ugs age. =20 Steve Boese =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 1:17 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison =20 Steve, Good to start the year off with an interesring and educational string= !! Steve to shine some light on Al's question about electrode erosion and possible "SAG" red= uction what has been your experience with plug life and have you had SAG with the D585= coil/igniters?? =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 From: Al Gietzen To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 1:38:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison Aside from the higher spark current from the D585s eroding the sparkplug= electrodes more quickly; do we have evidence that it will, in fact, impro= ve performance? Perhaps it is a cure for SAG. =20 BTW; my 6 D581 coils (Mounted atop my 20B) have been in use since my first= engine start back in about 2001. They have survived many hours of ground= test runs where cowl temps exceeded 150F (at times I=E2=80=99m sure reach= ed 190+ for short periods); and 200 fight hours with nary a single failure= . In-cowl temps are typically about 150 during climb-out; and generally 12= 0-140 during cruise. =20 =20 Perhaps it helps that they get plenty of air flow (during flight) being pr= etty much in blast from the rad exit. I generally run the rad aux fan for= awhile after shutdown; but I=E2=80=99d guess high temp is less of an issu= e when they are not operating. =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Tracy Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:13 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison =20 I highly recommend the air cooled enclosure as Steve Boese (and I) use. = This is especially important on the D581 and the stock RX-8 Renesis coils= . The Renesis coils have a fairly high failure rate even on the car. Th= e D581 would only last a few hours at 150 F but I have about 250 hours on= them with the airbox at 120F. Don't forget to do the coil disable test to check for failed coils prior= to every flight. Tracy On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Steven W. Boese wrote: I have about 100 hours on D585 coils and have had no problems with them so= far. The temperature in their airblasted enclosure is usually less than= 100 degrees in flight and has gotten up to 120 degrees during taxi. =20 Steve Boese =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Tracy Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 8:41 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison =20 I have a set of the D585 coils but have only evaluated them on the bench= for compatibility with the EC2/3 (they are). I do know that the previous version of the truck coils (D581) are not as= reliable as the D580 (Corvette) coils. Tracy On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: Happy New Year Group, =20 A little info regarding the various GM ignition coils that many of= us use on our Rotary engines with Tracy's EC2 and EC3 boxes that I thought might be of= interest to those that have not seen it before.............Tracy would like your co= mments on the the apparently big performance difference between the LS1 verses the LS2= Truck coils and if an upgrade would be worth the $$ especially for those of us= that have or plan on Turbocharging in light of the higher combustion chamber pressur= es.......=20 =20 =20 http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm#ls1 =20 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3D-6218245369765754251&hl=3Den =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CD7A839F4FBC4C_AD4_B711_Webmail-d121.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
As are some Volvos and Audis.
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: wrjjrs@aol.com <wrjjrs@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 3:47 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison

Several Susie are= 5 cylinders.
Bill Jepson


Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless


-----Original message-----
From: Bill= Bradburry <bbradburry@bell= south.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 4, 2011 23:33:22 GMT+00:00
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison

What has 5 cylinder= s???
 
Bill B
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Tuesday, January 04,= 2011 6:26 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= GM Coil Comparison
 
Here's one idea.
 
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthre= ad.php/272465-Converted-95-S6-ignition-to-GM-Delphi-D585-coils<= /FONT>
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net] On Behalf Of M= ark Steitle
Sent: Tuesday, January 04,= 2011 2:53 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= GM Coil Comparison
Yesterday I ordered 6 new D585 coils for my 20B. &nbs= p;It looks like they mount differently than the D580 coils.  Does any= one have any pictures they could share of how they mounted their D585 coil= s?  
 
FWIW, the old D580 coils have close to 200 hrs on the= m with no failures.  I mounted them down low on the motor mount. &nbs= p;The lack of vibration and heat may account for their longevity.  =
 
Mark S.=
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Steven W. Boese <<= A href=3D"mailto:SBoese@uwyo.edu">SBoese@uwyo.edu> wrote:
Kelly,
 
My spark plug life has been the= same with the stock 13B coils and the D585 coils.  I have had SAG wi= th the D585 coils also.  As I discussed at the Paducah fly in, SAG do= es not appear to be a spark plug misfire or failure to spark.  The ef= fect on EGT and coolant temperatures is the opposite for SAG as opposed to= no spark with either the trailing or leading plug.  I have seen evid= ence that SAG may be (similar to?) preignition caused by decreased thermal= conductivity between the center electrode and the tip of the ceramic.&nbs= p; This decreased thermal conductivity results from corrosion between the= ceramic and the center electrode and this corrosion is accelerated by the= use of leaded fuel.  There is also some evidence for decreased therm= al conductivity of the center electrode copper core as the spark plugs age= .
 
Steve Boese
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] <= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, January 03,= 2011 1:17 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= GM Coil Comparison
 
Steve,
   Good to start the year off with an interesring and= educational string !! Steve to shine
some light on Al's question about electrode erosion and possibl= e "SAG" reduction what
has been your experience with plug life and have you had SAG wi= th the D585 coil/igniters??
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
 
 
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>

To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011= 1:38:42 PM
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: GM Coil Comparison
Aside from the higher spark current= from the D585s eroding the sparkplug electrodes more quickly; do we have= evidence that it will, in fact, improve performance? Perhaps it is a cure= for SAG.
 
BTW; my 6 D581 coils (Mounted atop my= 20B) have been in use since my first engine start back in about 2001. &nb= sp;They have survived many hours of ground test runs where cowl temps exce= eded 150F (at times I=E2=80=99m sure reached 190+ for short periods); and= 200 fight hours with nary a single failure. In-cowl temps are typically= about 150 during climb-out; and generally 120-140 during cruise.  
 
Perhaps it helps that they get plenty= of air flow (during flight) being pretty much in blast from the rad exit.=   I generally run the rad aux fan for awhile after shutdown; but I=E2= =80=99d guess high temp is less of an issue when they are not operating.
 
Al
 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in air= craft [mailto:flyrotary@lan= caironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Monday, January 03,= 2011 8:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= GM Coil Comparison
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
I highly recommend the air cooled enclosure as Stev= e Boese (and I) use.  This is especially important on the D581 and th= e stock RX-8 Renesis coils.  The Renesis coils have a fairly high fai= lure rate even on the car.   The D581 would only last a few hour= s at 150 F but I have about 250 hours on them with the airbox at 120F.

Don't forget to do the coil disable test to check for failed coils prior= to every flight.

Tracy
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Steven W.= Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu> wrot= e:
I have abou= t 100 hours on D585 coils and have had no problems with them so far. = The temperature in their airblasted enclosure is usually less than 100 de= grees in flight and has gotten up to 120 degrees during taxi.
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
Steve Boese=
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
From: Rotary motors in aircraf= t [mailto:flyrotary@lancair= online.net] On Behalf Of <= /B>Tracy
Sent: Monday, January 03,= 2011 8:41 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= GM Coil Comparison
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
I have a set of the D585 coils but have only evalua= ted them on the bench for compatibility with the EC2/3  (they are).
I do know that the previous version of the truck coils (D581) are not as= reliable as the D580 (Corvette) coils.

Tracy
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Kelly Troye= r <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Happy New= Year Group,
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
  &nb= sp;     A little info regarding the various GM ignitio= n coils that many of us use on our
Rotary engines&= nbsp;with Tracy's EC2 and EC3 boxes that I thought might be of interest
to those that= have not seen it before.............Tracy would like your comments on the=
the apparently= big performance difference between the LS1 verses the LS2 Truck
coils and if an= upgrade would be worth the $$ especially for those of us that have=
or plan on Turb= ocharging in light of the higher combustion chamber pressures....... =
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

 
Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_= Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_= TO4E50 Turbo
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 
 
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