X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm12-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.242] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with SMTP id 4658102 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:13:18 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.242; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.91.62] by nm12.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2010 20:12:41 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.21] by tm2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2010 20:12:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1021.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Dec 2010 20:12:41 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 444439.47971.bm@omp1021.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 90001 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Dec 2010 20:12:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1293653561; bh=Xin+t2pEOJAbtUr1l1nRK3S2nen4jjwqWTIiYX2Dhs4=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LqE5Cgz3LdPVAWkzv0abQW59Ov9jZjJLvZ7VHQw7BNh0de3I9cjuvadNxrDV34rbxLHrxOxHZAvqSYINY0Ikf8ZjWC7x0B5fyuCgqbw3eCEbcAdrMWjmcUIUB2f4VRaHYN4LS+UNyISgoSnhNJx93A80eKQNuqJoF7KT/Jkak7c= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ryaR1fUNY4U3bGSCAc/LT3OQfzOQH0Wlq47PmguPslhMVqwpfcrI2kKiLlxJgiLUlAgw/Vj+jhQpcyLKTFoX050H7itBHEJ4iKZNhWYoproXKH5gfo572CdNdWGof9X9pd4vaj2s7S4ZE2VerQnk2XJDgSkEvp/024dAiqZ53pQ=; Message-ID: <175326.89889.qm@web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: P9zx5QsVM1k7N0L5CE_WQteDYosXONkgkPEOwsxnQTUF7c3 2kCR5Xl0XJ9YcuV0Sliw4Yk0pdL1bNE.CC37c_eboiyru9zr65Iy6sLA7UgZ VPQqUnDnp0iLv4Ux8AE3KwfSPrz7sIQqNq9UIAeka8DcI8Zmg9OfNZ7DIa5N 3jbUbJMhgG85DhNihQu_jfFbYVKef0W0kF3hUywOI0QXzdjVzCfFK8.uYrnR P4tYT5.VClzmx96I0tY3HQ87BnjIImVARMmHJezoc3brs7TIecpiDoi9DJDZ Myu47b4zzSg-- Received: from [208.114.43.63] by web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:12:40 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Fuel rail pressure To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1788335918-1293653560=:89889" --0-1788335918-1293653560=:89889 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bobby,=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do you know if these sensors are 10 to 180 ohm ??....= .........=C2=A0=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B RO= TARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TU= RBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr= om: Bobby J. Hughes =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, December 28, 2010 6:11:42 PM=0ASubje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure=0A=0A=0AVDO and Advanced part number= s.=C2=A0=0AThe injected 41,315 is VDO # 360-003D =0AThe carb 41,215 is VDO = # 360-043D=0ABobby=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom= : Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = =0AOf Tracy=0ASent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:52 PM=0ATo: Rotary motors = in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure=0A=0AMy Advanced = Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner=C2=A0fuel pressure = =0Asensor.=C2=A0=C2=A0They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO. G= o figure.=0A=0AStrange indeed.=C2=A0 I can't find a listing anywhere for a = VDO electric fuel =0Apressure gauge nor can I find a VDO pressure sensor th= at specifically states =0Athat it is rated for fuel pressure use.=C2=A0 The= ones I found now state that they =0Aare NOT rated for fuel.=C2=A0 Got a pa= rt number for it?=0A=0ATracy=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Bobby= J. Hughes wrote:=0A=0ATracy,=0A>=C2=A0=0A>My Advanced F= light System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner=C2=A0fuel pressure =0A= >sensor.=C2=A0=C2=A0They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO. Go = figure.=0A>=C2=A0=0A>Bobby=0A>=0A________________________________=0A=0A>Fro= m: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf= =0A>Of Tracy=0A>Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM=0A>To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure=0A>=0A>Hello= Brian,=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0 Here is an excerpt from the updated EM2 installatio= n guide.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Note that this =0A>assumes that your EM2 has been upda= ted since this change was developed (last 2 =0A>months or so).=0A>=0A>=0A>F= UEL PRESSURE SENSOR=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The EM2 was originally designed a= round VDO pressure sensors and the fuel =0A>pressure sensor was to be the s= ame type as used for the Oil Pressure sensor.=C2=A0 =0A>VDO at some point c= hanged the design of these sensor and they are no longer=C2=A0 =0A>safe to = use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the terminal end).=C2=A0=C2=A0 The c= losest =0A>substitute is a Stewart Warner=C2=A0 114875.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 These are available from Summit =0A>Racing as PN=C2=A0 SWW-114= 875.=C2=A0=C2=A0 To make it fully compatible with the EM2 you must =0A>wire= a 562 ohm resistor from the sensor output terminal to ground.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = This can be =0A>added near the sensor or near the EM2, which ever is most c= onvenient.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You =0A>must also set the Channel 13(mixture)= =C2=A0 Low limit value to 1 instead of 0.=C2=A0 The =0A>calibration values = for the Fuel pressure channel (12) should then be set to the =0A>following = values:=C2=A0 Scale factor =E2=80=93 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =E2=80=93 0, SE= NSOR OFFSET ~ =0A>963 , LOW ALARM LIMIT - ~28 , HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55. =0A>= =0A>Tracy=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, wro= te:=0A>=0A>Tracy,=0A>>did you ever find a suitable replacement fuel pressur= e sender? What are you =0A>>using now?=0A>>=0A>>Thanks,=0A>>Brian Trubee=0A= >>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-----Original Message-----=0A>>From: Tracy =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>=0A>>Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Fuel rail pressure=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Just for another data point:=0A>>=0A>>I i= nstalled the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my 20B =0A>= >installation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on hot= =0A>>startups.=C2=A0 This arrangement is now used on most new cars.=C2=A0 = Even with this =0A>>arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock.=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Even if it should happen, =0A>>the EC2/3=C2=A0 primer function wo= uld be able to vent the vapor from the rails.=0A>>=0A>>This setup allows th= e use of a Floscan type fuel flow sensor with the EM2/3 =0A>>since there is= no return flow from the fuel rails.=C2=A0 No big advantage other than =0A>= >being much easier to calibrate.=0A>>=0A>>Tracy=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Dec 2= 7, 2010 at 6:53 PM, wrote:=0A>>=0A>>It seems to me that th= e fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapor pressure =0A>>to exceed 40= psi and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump in such a case =0A>>would = cause coller fuel to flow through the rail and back to the tank. =0A>>=0A>>= >=0A>>>Brian Trubee=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>-----Original Messag= e-----=0A>>>From: Al Gietzen =0A>>>To: Rotary motors in= aircraft =0A>>>Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 3:49 p= m=0A>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=C2=A0=0A>>= >Also remember that when you are starting the engine you are starting it un= der a =0A>>>load. =C2=A0This is different then in a car config where in a c= ar you are starting it =0A>>>with no load attached to the crankshaft. =C2= =A0If the fuel rails are getting so hot =0A>>>that they are vaporizing I wo= uld think this would cause an excess pressure in =0A>>>the fuel system and = be very dangerous. =C2=A0This is not a problem I have ever had in =0A>>>a c= ar. =C2=A0What is causing this besides poor ventilation?=0A>>>The pressure = in the fuel rail can never exceed the setting of the pressure =0A>>>regulat= or; which should bear about 40 psi engine off. That=E2=80=99s true even if = you =0A>>>call the e-shaft a crankshaftJ.=0A>>>Al=0A>>>=C2=A0=0A>>=0A>=0A --0-1788335918-1293653560=:89889 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Bobby,
=0A
   Do you know if the= se sensors are 10 to 180 ohm ??............. 
=0A
 =0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RW= S"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_= TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom:= Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Tue, = December 28, 2010 6:11:42 PM
Subjec= t: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

=0A
=0A

VDO and Advanced part numbers. 

=0A

The injected 41,315 is = VDO # 360-003D

=0A

The carb 41,215 is VDO # = 360-043D

=0A

Bobby

=0A

 


= =0A
= =0A
=0AFrom: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of T= racy
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:52 PM
To: Rotar= y motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure<= BR>
=0A
My Advanced Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warn= er fuel pressure sensor.  They have had a few failures and n= ow ship with VDO. Go figure.

Strange indeed. = I can't find a listing anywhere for a VDO electric fuel pressure gauge nor= can I find a VDO pressure sensor that specifically states that it is rated= for fuel pressure use.  The ones I found now state that they are NOT = rated for fuel.  Got a part number for it?

Tracy

=0AOn Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net> = wrote:
=0A
=0A
= =0A
Tracy,
=0A
 
=0A
My Ad= vanced Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner fuel pres= sure sensor.  They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO.= Go figure.
=0A
 
=0A
Bobby=
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: = Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft<= BR>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

= =0A
Hello Brian,
   Here is an excerpt from the upda= ted EM2 installation guide.   Note that this assumes that your EM= 2 has been updated since this change was developed (last 2 months or so).
=0A

FUEL PRESSURE= SENSOR

=0A

<= SPAN>    The EM2 was originally designed around VDO p= ressure sensors and the fuel pressure sensor was to be the same type as use= d for the Oil Pressure sensor.  VDO at some point changed= the design of these sensor and they are no longer  safe = to use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the terminal end). &nb= sp; The closest substitute is a Stewart Warner = ; 114875.      These are a= vailable from Summit Racing as PN  SWW-114875.&n= bsp;  To make it ful= ly compatible with the EM2 you must wire a 562 ohm resistor from the sensor= output terminal to ground.   This can be added near the sensor or near= the EM2, which ever is most convenient.    You= must also set the Channel 13(mixture)  Low limit value t= o 1 instead of 0.  The calibration values for the Fuel pr= essure channel (12) should then be set to the following values: = Scale factor =E2=80=93 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =E2=80=93 0, SENSOR O= FFSET ~ 963 , LOW ALARM LIMIT - ~28 , HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55.
Tracy

=0A

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10= AM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
Tracy,
=0A
did you ev= er find a suitable replacement fuel pressure sender? What are you using now= ?
=0A
 
=0A
Thanks,
=0A
Brian Trubee
=0A


=0A
=0A
-----Origina= l Message-----
From: Tracy <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
=0A
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm
Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

=0A
Just for another data point:
I installed the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my= 20B installation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on= hot startups.  This arrangement is now used on most new cars.  E= ven with this arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock.  = ; Even if it should happen, the EC2/3  primer function would be able t= o vent the vapor from the rails.

This setup allows the use of a Flos= can type fuel flow sensor with the EM2/3 since there is no return flow from= the fuel rails.  No big advantage other than being much easier to cal= ibrate.

Tracy

=0A
On Mon, Dec 27, 201= 0 at 6:53 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
It seems to me that t= he fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapor pressure to exceed 40 psi= and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump in such a case would cause col= ler fuel to flow through the rail and back to the tank.
=0A
 = ;
=0A
Brian Trubee

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A<= DIV style=3D"CLEAR: both">


=0A
-----Original Message-----
F= rom: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net&= gt;
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2= 010 3:49 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure

=0A
=0A=0A
 
=0A
Also r= emember that when you are starting the engine you are starting it under a l= oad.  This is different then in a car config where in a car you are st= arting it with no load attached to the crankshaft.  If the fuel rails = are getting so hot that they are vaporizing I would think this would cause = an excess pressure in the fuel system and be very dangerous.  This is = not a problem I have ever had in a car.  What is causing this besides = poor ventilation?
=0A
The pressure in the fu= el rail can never exceed the setting of the pressure regulator; which shoul= d bear about 40 psi engine off. That=E2=80=99s true even if you call the e-= shaft a crankshaftJ.
=0A
Al
=0A
 

=0A

=0A

=0A
--0-1788335918-1293653560=:89889--