X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from vms173001pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.1] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4657866 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:31:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.1; envelope-from=finn.lassen@verizon.net Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([unknown] [71.98.181.96]) by vms173001.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0LE7005XR76PCR40@vms173001.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:30:27 -0600 (CST) Message-id: <4D1B621F.8080505@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:30:23 -0500 From: Finn Lassen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Off topic: Hangar doors References: In-reply-to: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=------------060300060800050003000401 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060300060800050003000401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jeff, Even though I'd hardly call it Tropics (northern Florida), I don't expect any significant amount of snow and ice. Or maybe I should take that back. Tracy reported that it snowed for 30 minutes the other day (even though it melted as it hit the ground). Even though I do realize that welding up 13 frames with hinges is going to be no small task, and that the bottom track groove is going to take regular cleaning out, I still favor the potential looks of these doors. Finn On 12/29/2010 9:52 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > > Finn, either you live in the tropics or like shoveling snow ... > > No comments about the wind calculations, but if living in a snow-belt > the horizontal bi-fold doors are simply the best. > > Vertical folding doors require shoveling and ice-chipping the entire > width of the hangar just to get the doors open, then another 15 foot > swath on the ramp out to the taxiway to get the airplane out. I will > say, the narrow 3 foot vertical sections you propose are significantly > better than the typical 10'x4 sections commonly used. > > Jeff > > *From:*Finn Lassen [mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:46 AM > *Subject:* Off topic: Hangar doors > > Looking to design and build hangar doors. > > I kinda fancy vertical harmonica doors. > /\/\/\/\/\ > The inner points carried by wheels in groove in concrete slab. > Wheels able to pivot in bottom of door frames. > Top supported by rollers in a steel U-channel, able to pivot in top of > door frames. > I figure 3 feet wide sections hinged at edges. > The thinner the better, but will have to be able to withstand wind > pressure without deforming. > > 10 feet tall. > Max wind pressure 31 pounds/sq ft. (110 mph wind zone). > Obviously that's on the high side. There are trees in the vicinity. So > 20 pounds/sq ft may be a more realistic number. But it doesn't hurt to > be on the safe side, > > For calculations the vertical supports will be spaced 1.5 feet apart. > (Actually 3 feet apart but doubled at each edge). > > I'm figuring maximum of 450 pounds of distributed weight (wind > pressure) on each vertical support. > > I've seen a couple of different formulas for maximum deflection, for > example: > 5/384 * W * L^3 / (E * I). > > I assume I can safely use E = 30,000,000 for steel. > > Let's say I'll allow 3" maximum deflection: > I = 0.113? > > However, I'm having trouble arriving at values for I (area moment of > inertia). > > What would I be for a 2"x2" 1/8" wall square steel tube? > > I_0 = \frac{bh^3}{12} > > > > > > (2 * 2^3) / 12 = 1.33? > Or would that only be for a solid 2x2" bar? > > For a 1.5" square tube? > I = 0.42? > > (I also need guard railing for my porch. Seems a1.5"D tube with 1/8" > wall is I = 0.1276. > \pi \left(\frac{{r_2}+{r_1}}{2}\right)^3 \left({r_2}-{r_1}\right) > Does that seem right?) > > Also, I guess I'm not so much concerned with deflection as with point > of permanent deformation. > How would I arrive at that number? > > My objective is the thin hangar doors and the lightest guard rails. > And of course cheapest materials. > > Sanity check appreciated. > > Finn > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5741 (20101229) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5741 (20101229) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for > the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. > Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that > we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original > message. Thank you. --------------060300060800050003000401 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030208050506060605030508" --------------030208050506060605030508 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jeff,

Even though I'd hardly call it Tropics (northern Florida), I don't expect any significant amount of snow and ice.
Or maybe I should take that back. Tracy reported that it snowed for 30 minutes the other day (even though it melted as it hit the ground).

Even though I do realize that welding up 13 frames with hinges is going to be no small task, and that the bottom track groove is going to take regular cleaning out, I still favor the potential looks of these doors.

Finn

On 12/29/2010 9:52 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote:

Finn, either you live in the tropics or like shoveling snow …

No comments about the wind calculations, but if living in a snow-belt the horizontal bi-fold doors are simply the best.

Vertical folding doors require shoveling and ice-chipping the entire width of the hangar just to get the doors open, then another 15 foot swath on the ramp out to the taxiway to get the airplane out.  I will say, the narrow 3 foot vertical sections you propose are significantly better than the typical 10’x4 sections commonly used.

Jeff

 

From: Finn Lassen [mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:46 AM
Subject: Off topic: Hangar doors

 

Looking to design and build hangar doors.

I kinda fancy vertical harmonica doors.
/\/\/\/\/\
The inner points carried by wheels in groove in concrete slab.
Wheels able to pivot in bottom of door frames.
Top supported by rollers in a steel U-channel, able to pivot in top of door frames.
I figure 3 feet wide sections hinged at edges.
The thinner the better, but will have to be able to withstand wind pressure without deforming.

10 feet tall.
Max wind pressure 31 pounds/sq ft. (110 mph wind zone).
Obviously that's on the high side. There are trees in the vicinity. So 20 pounds/sq ft may be a more realistic number. But it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side,

For calculations the vertical supports will be spaced 1.5 feet apart. (Actually 3 feet apart but doubled at each edge).

I'm figuring maximum of 450 pounds of distributed weight (wind pressure) on each vertical support.

I've seen a couple of different formulas for maximum deflection, for example:
5/384 * W * L^3 / (E * I).

I assume I can safely use E = 30,000,000 for steel.

Let's say I'll allow 3" maximum deflection:
I = 0.113?

However, I'm having trouble arriving at values for I (area moment of inertia).

What would I be for a 2"x2" 1/8" wall square steel tube?

I_0 = \frac{bh^3}{12}


(2 * 2^3) / 12 = 1.33?
Or would that only be for a solid 2x2" bar?

For a 1.5" square tube?
I = 0.42?

(I also need guard railing for my porch. Seems a1.5"D  tube with 1/8" wall is I =  0.1276.
\pi \left(\frac{{r_2}+{r_1}}{2}\right)^3 \left({r_2}-{r_1}\right)
Does that seem right?)

Also, I guess I'm not so much concerned with deflection as with point of permanent deformation.
How would I arrive at that number?

My objective is the thin hangar doors and the lightest guard rails. And of course cheapest materials.

Sanity check appreciated.

Finn


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5741 (20101229) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5741 (20101229) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

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