X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTPS id 4657740 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 09:52:09 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.110; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-3.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.110]) with mapi; Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:51:32 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:52:17 -0800 Subject: RE: Off topic: Hangar doors Thread-Topic: Off topic: Hangar doors Thread-Index: AcunSBkidyp0P3C/SHi/BMDCk/DvNwAHoYhQ Message-ID: References: <4D1ACB1F.2040203@verizon.net> In-Reply-To: <4D1ACB1F.2040203@verizon.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_" --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn, either you live in the tropics or like shoveling snow ... No comments about the wind calculations, but if living in a snow-belt the h= orizontal bi-fold doors are simply the best. Vertical folding doors require shoveling and ice-chipping the entire width = of the hangar just to get the doors open, then another 15 foot swath on the= ramp out to the taxiway to get the airplane out. I will say, the narrow 3= foot vertical sections you propose are significantly better than the typic= al 10'x4 sections commonly used. Jeff From: Finn Lassen [mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:46 AM Subject: Off topic: Hangar doors Looking to design and build hangar doors. I kinda fancy vertical harmonica doors. /\/\/\/\/\ The inner points carried by wheels in groove in concrete slab. Wheels able to pivot in bottom of door frames. Top supported by rollers in a steel U-channel, able to pivot in top of door= frames. I figure 3 feet wide sections hinged at edges. The thinner the better, but will have to be able to withstand wind pressure= without deforming. 10 feet tall. Max wind pressure 31 pounds/sq ft. (110 mph wind zone). Obviously that's on the high side. There are trees in the vicinity. So 20 p= ounds/sq ft may be a more realistic number. But it doesn't hurt to be on th= e safe side, For calculations the vertical supports will be spaced 1.5 feet apart. (Actu= ally 3 feet apart but doubled at each edge). I'm figuring maximum of 450 pounds of distributed weight (wind pressure) on= each vertical support. I've seen a couple of different formulas for maximum deflection, for exampl= e: 5/384 * W * L^3 / (E * I). I assume I can safely use E =3D 30,000,000 for steel. Let's say I'll allow 3" maximum deflection: I =3D 0.113? However, I'm having trouble arriving at values for I (area moment of inerti= a). What would I be for a 2"x2" 1/8" wall square steel tube? [cid:image001.png@01CBA73D.969482F0] (2 * 2^3) / 12 =3D 1.33? Or would that only be for a solid 2x2" bar? For a 1.5" square tube? I =3D 0.42? (I also need guard railing for my porch. Seems a1.5"D tube with 1/8" wall = is I =3D 0.1276. [cid:image002.png@01CBA73D.969482F0] Does that seem right?) Also, I guess I'm not so much concerned with deflection as with point of pe= rmanent deformation. How would I arrive at that number? My objective is the thin hangar doors and the lightest guard rails. And of = course cheapest materials. Sanity check appreciated. Finn __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5741 (20101229) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5741 (20101229) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Finn, either you live in = the tropics or like shoveling snow …

No comments about the win= d calculations, but if living in a snow-belt the horizontal bi-fold doors a= re simply the best.

Vertical folding doors re= quire shoveling and ice-chipping the entire width of the hangar just to get= the doors open, then another 15 foot swath on the ramp out to the taxiway to get the airplane out.  I will say, the narrow 3= foot vertical sections you propose are significantly better than the typic= al 10’x4 sections commonly used.

Jeff

 <= /p>

From: Finn Lassen [mailto:finn.lassen@verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 12:46 AM
Subject: Off topic: Hangar doors

 

Looking to design and build hangar doors.

I kinda fancy vertical harmonica doors.
/\/\/\/\/\
The inner points carried by wheels in groove in concrete slab.
Wheels able to pivot in bottom of door frames.
Top supported by rollers in a steel U-channel, able to pivot in top of door= frames.
I figure 3 feet wide sections hinged at edges.
The thinner the better, but will have to be able to withstand wind pressure= without deforming.

10 feet tall.
Max wind pressure 31 pounds/sq ft. (110 mph wind zone).
Obviously that's on the high side. There are trees in the vicinity. So 20 p= ounds/sq ft may be a more realistic number. But it doesn't hurt to be on th= e safe side,

For calculations the vertical supports will be spaced 1.5 feet apart. (Actu= ally 3 feet apart but doubled at each edge).

I'm figuring maximum of 450 pounds of distributed weight (wind pressure) on= each vertical support.

I've seen a couple of different formulas for maximum deflection, for exampl= e:
5/384 * W * L^3 / (E * I).

I assume I can safely use E =3D 30,000,000 for steel.

Let's say I'll allow 3" maximum deflection:
I =3D 0.113?

However, I'm having trouble arriving at values for I (area moment of inerti= a).

What would I be for a 2"x2" 1/8" wall square steel tube?

3D"I_0=


(2 * 2^3) / 12 =3D 1.33?
Or would that only be for a solid 2x2" bar?

For a 1.5" square tube?
I =3D 0.42?

(I also need guard railing for my porch. Seems a1.5"D  tube with = 1/8" wall is I =3D  0.1276.
3D"\pi
Does that seem right?)

Also, I guess I'm not so much concerned with deflection as with point of pe= rmanent deformation.
How would I arrive at that number?

My objective is the thin hangar doors and the lightest guard rails. And of = course cheapest materials.

Sanity check appreciated.

Finn


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5741 (20101229) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5741 (20101229) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

This message, and the docum= ents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain pr= ivileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strict= ly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our = internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.
 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_-- --_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: image/png; name="image001.png" Content-Description: image001.png Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.png"; size=572; creation-date="Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:51:30 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:51:30 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAEkAAAAsBAMAAADbZIgGAAAAMFBMVEX///8WFhaenp50dHTMzMww MDAMDAzm5uZiYmK2traKiopAQEAEBAQiIiJQUFAAAACg0mTPAAAAAXRSTlMAQObYZgAAAbpJREFU OBGNlLFLAnEUx794yt2JehVNtfgf5NIUhM1RSUNDkwjR0HJLU0ODENKSbUGRQkNLkG5RVC4tQiQ0 FDjoVksgGBhZ2XvKXSq/+/36yv1+7/d+n3v3fO9+ByjkO1lWELxtRae8qYU24K8VABMSCp8cJ89h LngQy2yRP2fTcPAkJthrJGnYoUvHEbNihSklVOk6hxUTI+S1MtM2mukbHGM760nl6lrCbMOKB9Or nhCl5GsYJaK8EdqpQmtQbrJaEVVGIEnlupaG0lsI1alcZV2G6Q2c2ZybJqMwrqcoN6NyKqXmZ7JI QX+MOtTb16VjSmaT26+Uwe1XKpxUIgRY3H6lcnklQsCe7VDFUVbFWQ7MKwMrr8UdsDg79KZZnX41 6Dw1gST95NLe4RvBGEOSvAIlaBU8y0MhlKDWq6it2kZcHEsvAL6rSdt5CuU14dh/81yFDjb6+rcu +I+bRaIK8H+49x0O14t3AkTRl+fbpYQGU2vAvXDTdTJFRf9xHUKjR0UU72iPWooKQ7jOHiUokUuw 0aUCeTYl6lK79PmViqlgDIYU6j5xP5N5lVKR2/YLHjqdf53pbqRf7O1196bwnKwAAAAASUVORK5C YII= --_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: image/png; name="image002.png" Content-Description: image002.png Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image002.png"; size=1106; creation-date="Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:51:31 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 29 Dec 2010 06:51:31 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAALcAAAAsBAMAAADV4TQsAAAAMFBMVEX///8iIiIMDAwWFhZ0dHS2 traenp5QUFDMzMxiYmLm5uaKiopAQEAEBAQwMDAAAAA7lCTjAAAAAXRSTlMAQObYZgAAA9BJREFU SA2dVk+IG2UUf9lkktlJNtmLB1uRvZQqQqkECuIKOSi91Jiyp710c/GwaEkqQhE8RHrQiyaLoG6l 28GLuiKupQVXCg0UvCiye5Gll6aorCBohHbrn4XxvffNm3zflz87sw/y3vv93p+Z+b5v3gQgubxS rScviluxl+3HTU2eVztUc2fDvJJnQnAriih0rEAceM5KSlkYXmfCWfHtwMHYPWnlDDUv8qP5zh0r MQZMtwA2e8//GqWGzfNrmWpNkU+gyffhfpQS27mImZXtzwaVYfPMzJF2RXX5Go3T9B4olEC7W3hX rT0IbxIrw+bflOpO2CdN67JZJZ1Mih0Aj05ZdvURVRk29xsEfyOVnSN9CGn7WJSbBfgcltAtlsvP lctPU6ML+NvcIQ+eYp1c/Uglabz9BpTqXB7eOTxDSDV/nwPJ1U9UUqrhjsFXLS6X5rx/qnkY4XAC 5eBq012TvMlaNlS97ao5PZmIL85Ia0RzJymnSirfJR2dlkyPgGpOexJKriXeSPuCzqabEVoGn31Z FgaqOb5BIh+IM9oWfI0vbQhwLn9RY78oDFnV3P1bOLcn3mjr6fG2aoiZ7SAYzl/eVxf/T0Kplnhj 7Hca3/A1MN59UkKXxBlnz2qBlzR/gjsvsQ/FGWdnMPBnEARbaK+MSzL5xwUexVM1GJfCanM1VYfC tx99uk6h1wbxSd49CeIGa+NSWG2u4vfqZWjmOBKz+c/S5l8AbVwKq83VXBMHYfPtQfMSrtFY6VPe bWmDiMfl8koNKfcdEj+cq1BsAUx38dnqyxhMvix0KRyXXsfBZ4D3/iDpoEfvcP5KSzVP+6eRir2h 0ZpTSxyXOHj2uF4UT5+ZFl6lCbAAa8zHPIqPSZNj6NC4rHnRS8shmqtAzQsVgF14kclbrA9UxyXj d75rRLmuUGwbpKl5Gq+yA+8yuYTYlOwP877JIIo+32dwu3oUvklqIDxXqTm9RCLh10cg2kVIzaEx ZPDh/yTksx3PyGBAzV/V6KmOBtjtgvuPzfHRYLJAa4uyuH5DObqm5vxFD8lCT4+Svw/wl81Nzwnj 9dhzg6AvVGSzV78HpxtBPJtbGmD3BMC2zRW7EXM98kY6xsfAOlFc4D6067SdyYTrYqeE+LLBP2og Bjl6Uww5b6D44Npwartuc7s2ERNPDXWCZ+1Sb+hR7IwxODNrB9TfcZ213kY9dIB/yo5/jH++TPnS N3F8tGCl5iswbVG/WDg+zDTN3IXV1TdMJt8zcRKEg06Xu0EQ/UtR/Ft6OKFfqE8ucHuT45Oj/uRw 0uj/GBTpxyvW1c4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= --_005_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0179F22AAD1EEXVMBX0035e_--