X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4657052 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:27:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wyb28 with SMTP id 28so9555107wyb.25 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=qcx19Clxhy3+T+eJZ32LM9vFIOA3JHyuHainII2o1VE=; b=lnOnRB47PVncMUNhDoslecZmelAv5SHK/GGOdidv1kG/C0d99B9BXlpPqIQnsNlTly KB/4JmE0YAMgLGRqpgCotmgArmQhd/joLWa8IwhNKynJ73WDfmBV8Bzl85RhKeUNgflw WGDhdjqfm/ophsQxhZU/5SJgBcmkEXh1qy++c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=q/Vbozbr3HiJkzUgmZz/7nM5a7AwJxFSxZriAO3bx+3UFQSTNBcUbgzT0YqqowaXwD 6eHLbgVirsAKsEMzd6g7dSjmLVZ4acL70e03Gl3yg80QrkRgVRXIAs3bcvOnmTWI+sfW px+88Y5MESelu9m1FMx9pQJ1O54e7R1+HBm08= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.61.202 with SMTP id w52mr17353543wec.110.1293575188790; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:26:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.200.158 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:26:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:26:28 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: whAw0LuiehUseGjfSmEbKpIuuSc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0037a9e3ffb04987ff144 --000e0ce0037a9e3ffb04987ff144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That sensor comes with a tag warning NOT to use for fuel pressure applications. Tracy On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Chris Barber wr= ote: > So, this http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=3D100PSI_VDO is not > suitable? I thought this is where you mention in the manual. I did not > see a fuel disclaimer and I think I got to the link from the fuel link. > > > > Chris > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of Tracy [tracy@rotaryaviation.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:51 PM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure > > *My Advanced Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner fuel > pressure sensor. They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO. Go > figure.* > > Strange indeed. I can't find a listing anywhere for a VDO electric fuel > pressure gauge nor can I find a VDO pressure sensor that specifically sta= tes > that it is rated for fuel pressure use. The ones I found now state that > they are NOT rated for fuel. Got a part number for it? > > Tracy > > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote= : > >> Tracy, >> >> My Advanced Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner fuel >> pressure sensor. They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO. Go >> figure. >> >> Bobby >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = *On >> Behalf Of *Tracy >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure >> >> Hello Brian, >> Here is an excerpt from the updated EM2 installation guide. Note th= at >> this assumes that your EM2 has been updated since this change was develo= ped >> (last 2 months or so). >> >> FUEL PRESSURE SENSOR >> >> The EM2 was originally designed around VDO pressure sensors and the >> fuel pressure sensor was to be the same type as used for the Oil Pressur= e >> sensor. VDO at some point changed the design of these sensor and they >> are no longer safe to use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the >> terminal end). The closest substitute is a Stewart Warner 114875. >> These are available from >> Summit Racing as PN *SWW-114875. **To make it fully compatible with >> the EM2 you must wire a 562 ohm resistor from the sensor output terminal= to >> ground. This can be added near the sensor or near the EM2, which ever >> is most convenient. You must also set the Channel 13(mixture) Low >> limit value to 1 instead of 0. The calibration values for the Fuel >> pressure channel (12) should then be set to the following values: Scale >> factor =96 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =96 0, SENSOR OFFSET ~ 963 , LOW ALARM= LIMIT - >> ~28 , HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55. * >> >> Tracy >> >> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, wrote: >> >>> Tracy, >>> did you ever find a suitable replacement fuel pressure sender? What are >>> you using now? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Brian Trubee >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tracy >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure >>> >>> Just for another data point: >>> >>> I installed the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my 2= 0B >>> installation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on = hot >>> startups. This arrangement is now used on most new cars. Even with th= is >>> arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock. Even if it should >>> happen, the EC2/3 primer function would be able to vent the vapor from= the >>> rails. >>> >>> This setup allows the use of a Floscan type fuel flow sensor with the >>> EM2/3 since there is no return flow from the fuel rails. No big advant= age >>> other than being much easier to calibrate. >>> >>> Tracy >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, wrote: >>> >>>> It seems to me that the fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapo= r >>>> pressure to exceed 40 psi and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump = in >>>> such a case would cause coller fuel to flow through the rail and back = to the >>>> tank. >>>> >>>> Brian Trubee >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Al Gietzen >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure >>>> >>>> >>>> Also remember that when you are starting the engine you are starting >>>> it under a load. This is different then in a car config where in a ca= r you >>>> are starting it with no load attached to the crankshaft. If the fuel = rails >>>> are getting so hot that they are vaporizing I would think this would c= ause >>>> an excess pressure in the fuel system and be very dangerous. This is = not a >>>> problem I have ever had in a car. What is causing this besides poor >>>> ventilation? >>>> The pressure in the fuel rail can never exceed the setting of the >>>> pressure regulator; which should bear about 40 psi engine off. That=92= s true >>>> even if you call the e-shaft a crankshaftJ. >>>> Al >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > --000e0ce0037a9e3ffb04987ff144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That sensor comes with a tag warning NOT to use for fuel pressure applicati= ons.

Tracy

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at= 5:11 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

So, this http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=3D100PSI_= VDO=A0is not suitable?=A0 I thought this is where you mention in= the manual.=A0 I did not see a fuel disclaimer and I think I got to the link from the fuel link.=A0

=A0

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] on behalf of Tracy [tracy@rotaryaviation.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 3:51 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

My Advanced= Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart Warner=A0fuel pressure sens= or.=A0=A0They have had a few failures and now ship with VDO. Go figure.

Strange indeed.=A0 I can't find a listing anywhere for a VDO electric f= uel pressure gauge nor can I find a VDO pressure sensor that specifically s= tates that it is rated for fuel pressure use.=A0 The ones I found now state= that they are NOT rated for fuel.=A0 Got a part number for it?

Tracy

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Bobby J. Hughes= <bhughes@qnsi.net<= /a>> wrote:
Tracy,
=A0
My Advanced Flight System EFIS \ EM shipped with a Stewart War= ner=A0fuel pressure sensor.=A0=A0They have had a few failures and now ship = with VDO. Go figure.
=A0
Bobby
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy

Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

Hello Brian,
=A0=A0 Here is an excerpt from the updated EM2 installation guide.=A0=A0 No= te that this assumes that your EM2 has been updated since this change was d= eveloped (last 2 months or so).

FUEL PRESSURE SENSO= R

=A0=A0=A0 The EM2 was originally designed around VDO pressure sensors and the fue= l pressure sensor was to be the same type as used for the Oil Pressure sens= or.=A0 VDO at some point changed the design of these sensor and they are no= longer=A0 safe to use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the terminal end).=A0=A0 The closest substitute is a Stewart Warner=A0 114875.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These are available from Sum= mit Racing as PN=A0 SWW-114875.=A0=A0 To make it fully compatible with the EM2 you must wire a 562 ohm = resistor from the sensor output terminal to ground.=A0=A0 This can be added near the sensor or near the EM2, which ever is mos= t convenient.=A0=A0=A0 You must also set the Channel 13(mixture)=A0 Low limit = value to 1 instead of 0.=A0 The calibration values for the Fuel pressure channel (12) should the= n be set to the following values:=A0 Scale factor =96 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =96 0, SENSOR OFFSET ~ 963 ,= LOW ALARM LIMIT - ~28 , HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55.


Tracy

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, <bktrub@aol.com<= /a>> wrote:
Tracy,
did you ever find a suitable replacement fuel pressure sender? What ar= e you using now?
=A0
Thanks,
Brian Trubee



Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

Just for another data point:

I installed the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my 20B i= nstallation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on hot s= tartups.=A0 This arrangement is now used on most new cars.=A0 Even with thi= s arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock.=A0=A0 Even if it should happen, the EC2/3=A0 primer funct= ion would be able to vent the vapor from the rails.

This setup allows the use of a Floscan type fuel flow sensor with the EM2/3= since there is no return flow from the fuel rails.=A0 No big advantage oth= er than being much easier to calibrate.

Tracy

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
It seems to me that the fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapor= pressure to exceed 40 psi and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump in s= uch a case would cause coller fuel to flow through the rail and back to the= tank.
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure

=A0
= Also remember that when you are starting the engine you are starting it und= er a load. =A0This is different then in a car config where in a car you are= starting it with no load attached to the crankshaft. =A0If the fuel rails are getting so hot that they are vaporizi= ng I would think this would cause an excess pressure in the fuel system and= be very dangerous. =A0This is not a problem I have ever had in a car. =A0W= hat is causing this besides poor ventilation?
The pressure in the fuel rail can never exceed the s= etting of the pressure regulator; which should bear about 40 psi engine off. That=92s true even if you call the e-shaft a= crankshaftJ.
Al
=A0




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