X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4657049 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:24:15 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.50; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so9468747wwf.7 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:23:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=PS5zwMOqMxszXc+xcFci9aBwlQ9qGR2U00pXRLGUKvU=; b=qQkrYUAcJAZciAPSHMHAidpidJ/3epB4NkPyk7lo4JujmLKmzyl1vCa5KIJw/7vBAc yztt5cx1my+mJyq+CojGCs1rHrSsYqZc4aBTW0qPeGfEPcssfzLgjUBN+9AVrX/x1vJz Wnqne7dpsEiq4gBZ9U+ROfeYoKrna4TyXx02g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=Hzcok1IcAocA45c8jaJK6ANWGhLue5wfjbZUmDtX04zWSgv5KWMPbuL8dFAFHue5TH oDDE1B8QgLeN7AmRP76EoiSorkf53Exlgz1Vs5732MaKW7rdja53WuZEoOqDELVZuvrn kz1d7lAnE94Y48oY+Db0gnQXkACPifTCSgd88= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.174.65 with SMTP id w43mr17375941wel.95.1293575020508; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:23:40 -0800 (PST) Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.200.158 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:23:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:23:40 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: It5dyp29N_KZbxL5hJYKF2oJhN0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f1d8769677a204987fe7b8 --001485f1d8769677a204987fe7b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, The new settings on the EM2 fuel pressure calibration require the SW sensor and the EM2 update. Your EM2 FP reading sounds like the sensor is either not connected or the sensor is not grounded (not making connection to block). To test this guess, With power OFF, measure the resistance to engine ground at the sensor output. It should be about 10 ohms. If this is correct, disconnec= t the sensor from the EC2 (at the sensor) and see if you get the same reading. If so, the connection is probably broken somewhere. Tracy On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Chris Barber wr= ote: > Tracy/Group, > > > > I hate to be the village idiot (somebody's got to do it and Obama is in > Washington.....bad Chris...not a political forum....bad bad BAAAAD), but, > would I still be able to use the SW sensor with the mods you mention if I > have NOT been updated recently? Well, at least not in the last two months= . > > > > I have had fuel readings around 126 psi on the EM2 even though the gauge > on the fuel pressure regulator read just a hair under 40psi. > > > > I have been meaning to buy a new VDO pressure sender but hesitated until = I > verified the wires...which I have now done. Should I use the VDO....or > transition to the SW? Is the update needed or does it just adjust the > settings as you described in your post? > > > > Now, on to the EGT reading problem and a desired solution and a few wire > run tweaks and I may be ready to call a DAR.....uh, or not ;-) > > > > Chris > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behal= f > of Tracy [tracy@rotaryaviation.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure > > Hello Brian, > Here is an excerpt from the updated EM2 installation guide. Note tha= t > this assumes that your EM2 has been updated since this change was develop= ed > (last 2 months or so). > > FUEL PRESSURE SENSOR > > The EM2 was originally designed around VDO pressure sensors and the > fuel pressure sensor was to be the same type as used for the Oil Pressure > sensor. VDO at some point changed the design of these sensor and they ar= e > no longer safe to use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the terminal > end). The closest substitute is a Stewart Warner 114875. > These are available from > Summit Racing as PN *SWW-114875. **To make it fully compatible with th= e > EM2 you must wire a 562 ohm resistor from the sensor output terminal to > ground. This can be added near the sensor or near the EM2, which ever i= s > most convenient. You must also set the Channel 13(mixture) Low limit > value to 1 instead of 0. The calibration values for the Fuel pressure > channel (12) should then be set to the following values: Scale factor = =96 > 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =96 0, SENSOR OFFSET ~ 963 , LOW ALARM LIMIT - ~28= , > HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55. * > > Tracy > > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, wrote: > >> Tracy, >> did you ever find a suitable replacement fuel pressure sender? What are >> you using now? >> >> Thanks, >> Brian Trubee >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tracy >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure >> >> Just for another data point: >> >> I installed the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my 20= B >> installation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on h= ot >> startups. This arrangement is now used on most new cars. Even with thi= s >> arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock. Even if it should >> happen, the EC2/3 primer function would be able to vent the vapor from = the >> rails. >> >> This setup allows the use of a Floscan type fuel flow sensor with the >> EM2/3 since there is no return flow from the fuel rails. No big advanta= ge >> other than being much easier to calibrate. >> >> Tracy >> >> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, wrote: >> >>> It seems to me that the fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapor >>> pressure to exceed 40 psi and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump i= n >>> such a case would cause coller fuel to flow through the rail and back t= o the >>> tank. >>> >>> Brian Trubee >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Al Gietzen >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure >>> >>> >>> Also remember that when you are starting the engine you are starting i= t >>> under a load. This is different then in a car config where in a car yo= u are >>> starting it with no load attached to the crankshaft. If the fuel rails= are >>> getting so hot that they are vaporizing I would think this would cause = an >>> excess pressure in the fuel system and be very dangerous. This is not = a >>> problem I have ever had in a car. What is causing this besides poor >>> ventilation? >>> The pressure in the fuel rail can never exceed the setting of the >>> pressure regulator; which should bear about 40 psi engine off. That=92s= true >>> even if you call the e-shaft a crankshaftJ. >>> Al >>> >>> >> >> > --001485f1d8769677a204987fe7b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris,
=A0 The new settings on the EM2 fuel pressure calibration require= the SW sensor and the EM2 update.=A0

Your EM2 FP reading sounds li= ke the sensor is either not connected or the sensor is not grounded (not ma= king connection to block). =A0 To test this guess,=A0 With power OFF,=A0 me= asure the resistance to engine ground at the sensor output.=A0 It should be= about 10 ohms.=A0 If this is correct,=A0 disconnect the sensor from the EC= 2 (at the sensor) and see if you get the same reading.=A0 If so, the connec= tion is probably broken somewhere.

Tracy

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 5:04 PM= , Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

Tracy/Group,

=A0

I hate to be the=A0village idiot (somebody's got to do it and= Obama is in Washington.....bad Chris...not a political forum....bad=A0bad<= a> BAAAAD), but, would I still be able to use the = SW sensor with the=A0mods you mention if I have=A0NOT been updated recently? Well, at least not in the l= ast two months.

=A0

I have had fuel readings around 126 psi on the=A0EM2 even = though the gauge on the fuel pressure regulator read just a hair under 40ps= i.

=A0

I have been meaning to buy a new=A0VDO pressure sender but= hesitated until I verified the wires...which I have now done.=A0 Should I = use the VDO....or transition to the SW?=A0 Is the update need= ed or does it just adjust the settings as you described in your post?

=A0

Now, on to the=A0EGT reading problem and a desired solutio= n and a few wire run tweaks=A0and I may be ready to call a DAR.....uh, or n= ot ;-)

=A0

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on be= half of Tracy [tracy@rotaryaviation.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

Hello Brian,
=A0=A0 Here is an excerpt from the updated EM2 installation guide.=A0=A0 No= te that this assumes that your EM2 has been updated since this change was d= eveloped (last 2 months or so).

FUEL PRESSURE SENSO= R

=A0=A0=A0 The EM2 was originally designed around VDO pressure sensors and the = fuel pressure sensor was to be the same type as used for the Oil Pressure s= ensor.=A0 VDO at some point changed the design of these sensor and they are no= longer=A0 safe to use with Fuel (they begin leaking from the terminal end).=A0=A0 The closest substitute is a Stewart Warner=A0 114875.=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 These are available from Sum= mit Racing as PN=A0 SWW-114875.=A0=A0 To make it fully compatible with the EM2 you must wire a 562 ohm = resistor from the sensor output terminal to ground.=A0=A0 This can be added near the sensor or near the EM2, which ever is mos= t convenient.=A0=A0=A0 You must also set the Channel 13(mixture)=A0 Low limit = value to 1 instead of 0.=A0 The calibration values for the Fuel pressure channel (12) should the= n be set to the following values:=A0 Scale factor =96 6.922 , LOW END OFFSET =96 0, SENSOR OFFSET ~ 963 ,= LOW ALARM LIMIT - ~28 , HIGH ALARM LIMIT -~55.


Tracy

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:10 AM, <bktrub@aol.com<= /a>> wrote:
Tracy,
did you ever find a suitable replacement fuel pressure sender? What ar= e you using now?
=A0
Thanks,
Brian Trubee



Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 4:30 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel rail pressure

Just for another data point:

I installed the fuel pressure regulator prior to the fuel rails in my 20B i= nstallation so there is no fuel flow to flush vapor from the rails on hot s= tartups.=A0 This arrangement is now used on most new cars.=A0 Even with thi= s arrangement I have had no trouble with vapor lock.=A0=A0 Even if it should happen, the EC2/3=A0 primer funct= ion would be able to vent the vapor from the rails.

This setup allows the use of a Floscan type fuel flow sensor with the EM2/3= since there is no return flow from the fuel rails.=A0 No big advantage oth= er than being much easier to calibrate.

Tracy

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:53 PM, <bktrub@aol.com> wrote:
It seems to me that the fuel would have to be pretty hot for the vapor= pressure to exceed 40 psi and cause vapor lock. Running the fuel pump in s= uch a case would cause coller fuel to flow through the rail and back to the= tank.
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel rail pressure

=A0
= Also remember that when you are starting the engine you are starting it und= er a load. =A0This is different then in a car config where in a car you are= starting it with no load attached to the crankshaft. =A0If the fuel rails are getting so hot that they are vaporizi= ng I would think this would cause an excess pressure in the fuel system and= be very dangerous. =A0This is not a problem I have ever had in a car. =A0W= hat is causing this besides poor ventilation?
The pressure in the fuel rail can never exceed the s= etting of the pressure regulator; which should bear about 40 psi engine off. That=92s true even if you call the e-shaft a= crankshaftJ.
Al
=A0



--001485f1d8769677a204987fe7b8--