X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omta4.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([4.59.182.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.11) with ESMTP id 4655891 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:09:44 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=4.59.182.102; envelope-from=lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca Received: from torspm02.toronto.rmgopenwave.com ([142.167.191.103]) by tormtz05.toronto.rmgopenwave.com (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20101227210910.DFST29225.tormtz05.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@torspm02.toronto.rmgopenwave.com> for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:09:10 -0500 Received: from PCdeRita ([142.167.191.103]) by torspm02.toronto.rmgopenwave.com with SMTP id <20101227210909.RKVZ2929.torspm02.toronto.rmgopenwave.com@PCdeRita> for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:09:09 -0500 Message-ID: <9B52E37EFE4E4FFD829EA41EBD9C863E@PCdeRita> From: "Rino" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris - Update needed Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:08:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01CBA5E8.AE168BE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18263 X-Opwv-CommTouchExtSvcRefID: str=0001.0A020208.4D190076.0094,ss=1,fgs=0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CBA5E8.AE168BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The only thing our engines do not have is a choke. I agree that we have = to compensate for the lack of a choke, that's it. They probably have = that stuff on today's aircraft engines, not on car engines. Rino ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 1:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris - Update needed Before cars had all the automated gobblededo to make them start by = turning the ignition key, they had spark advance levers and manual = chokes. They only started when you held your tongue just right. Our = engines are set up with the original manual stuff. You will have to = learn how to start it. Each setup will be slightly different. =20 I doubt anybody can just power up and hit the starter and have a start = with this setup. Stuff has to be done. Prime?, Mixture?, Cold Start? YMMV =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Rino Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 9:35 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris - Update needed =20 Chris, =20 It is a car engine, it should start like a car engine, you turn the = ignition key and it starts --- every time. If not something must be = changed to make it so. That is the way mine starts and I have no secret = technique. I think one should not have to remember a complex process = every time he starts the engine. That is one of the reasons I choosed = the rotary to the Lycoming and I am glad I did! =20 Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose =20 =20 Chris, For hot starts you might try (1) pump on (2) EC2 on (3) one prime = (4) injectors disabled (5) Starter (6) injectors on=20 after it fires) (you still may have to fiddle with the mixture with = this method)..............Might be worth a try.................<:)=20 =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 5:20:43 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris - Update needed I was hesitant to provide info as I was having oil pressure issues = again and I dreaded the idea of posting having to pull the engine again. = I could just hear Al Wicks keyboard tuning up. :-) Anyway, I started basic trouble shooting, had removed the prop = preparing to pull the engine off. Before I did so I figured it would be = less messy to drain the pan (gee, ya think?). When I did so I only had = about one quart come out. Odd? I added oil, removed the hose from the cooler and cranked her over = remotely and oil flowed strong and in quantity. So I checked and secured my hose connections, added about five = quarts of Royal Purple and cranked her up sans prop, confidant that I = was comfortable enough with the engine to keep her from over spinning.=20 I checked the manual pressure gauge I had attached and it was pegged = at 80, up from 20. Reinstalled my EC2 electric gauge and got the same = result. Now, this turbo with out the prop is way quieter. Without the prop = it produces a low throaty rumble that say POWER. Except for the exhaust = (rich mixture due to cold temp), noise and spinning prop flange you = could not tell it was running. It was dead smooth. It was kind of weird = walking were the prop usually is while it was running. Not a good habit. = All three starts produced good oil press at around 2600 fpm. Check the basics (or so I hope and this isn't some new anomolie).=20 Mark, the ecu is back in. The engine seems to be running strong and = smooth. I am developing just a hair over 6300 rpm static at about 34 = map. That is with the IVO inflight adjustable set at it's finest setting = of about 45 degree.=20 Another distraction is my EGT readings working. I have discussed = this previously and still need to assess it along with bad fuel pressure = readings.=20 My current project, if the oil pressure is ok, is to develop a hot = start routine. Currently it wants full rich and a few shots of prime for = a cold start. Cold it starts easily.=20 However, warm start is a pita. I seem to be having luck with severe = lean mixture until it catches and fires up. Otherwise, it seems just = about to catch, but doesn't quite do so. It may take a few attempt and = excessive cranking, and of course holding my tongue just right. Also, = what seems to have made a big difference too and making warm cranks = better is two new batteries with a combined cranking amps of 710, up = from what was probably only about 350 ish CAmps before. =20 Other than that I am working on the devil in the details. Geesh = there are a lot of details, but at last hopefully it is not proof of = concept, but flight ready. =20 Questions?????? :-) Sent from my iPhone 4 On Dec 25, 2010, at 3:41 PM, "Mark Steitle" = wrote: > Chris, =20 >=20 > You've been silent for too long. I was curious if you ever got = your EC-2 back from being checked & upgraded? If so, was that the = problem? How about a status update? =20 >=20 > Mark -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CBA5E8.AE168BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The only thing our engines do not have = is a=20 choke.  I agree that we have to compensate for the lack of a = choke,=20 that's it.  They probably have that stuff on today's aircraft = engines, not=20 on car engines.
 
Rino
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 = 1:23=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris = - Update=20 needed

Before cars = had all=20 the automated gobblededo to make them start by turning the ignition = key, they=20 had spark advance levers and manual chokes.  They only started = when you=20 held your tongue just right.  Our engines are set up with the = original=20 manual stuff.  You will have to learn how to start it.  Each = setup=20 will be slightly different.

 

I doubt = anybody can=20 just power up and hit the starter and have a start with this = setup. =20 Stuff has to be done.  Prime?, Mixture?, Cold=20 Start?

YMMV

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Rino
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 = 9:35=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Chris = - Update=20 needed

 

Chris,

 

It is a car engine, it = should=20 start like a car engine, you turn the ignition key and it starts --- = every=20 time.  If not something must be changed to make it so.  That = is the=20 way mine starts and I have no secret technique.   I think = one should=20 not have to remember a complex process every time he starts the = engine. =20 That is one of the reasons I choosed the rotary to the Lycoming and I = am glad=20 I did!

 

Rino=20 Lacombe

Renesis powered Glass=20 Goose

 

 

Chris,

   For hot = starts you=20 might try (1) pump on (2) EC2 on (3) one prime (4) injectors = disabled (5)=20 Starter (6) injectors on

after it fires) (you = still may=20 have to fiddle with the mixture with this method)..............Might = be=20 worth a=20 = try.................<:) 
 

Kelly=20 Troyer
"DYKE DELTA=20 JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_=20 Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil=20 Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50=20 Turbo

 

 

From:=20 Chris Barber=20 <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 = 5:20:43=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Chris - Update needed

I was hesitant to provide info as I = was having=20 oil pressure issues again and I dreaded the idea of posting having = to pull=20 the engine again. I could just hear Al Wicks keyboard tuning up.=20 :-)

Anyway, I started basic trouble shooting, had removed the = prop=20 preparing to pull the engine off. Before I did so I figured it would = be less=20 messy to drain the pan (gee, ya think?). When I did so I only had = about one=20 quart come out. Odd?

I added oil, removed the hose from the = cooler=20 and cranked her over remotely and oil flowed strong and in=20 quantity.

So I checked and secured my hose connections, added = about=20 five quarts of Royal Purple and cranked her up sans prop, confidant = that I=20 was comfortable enough with the engine to keep her from over = spinning.=20

I checked the manual pressure gauge I had attached and it = was pegged=20 at 80, up from 20. Reinstalled my EC2 electric gauge and got the = same=20 result.

Now, this turbo with out the prop is way quieter. = Without the=20 prop it produces a low throaty rumble that say POWER. Except for the = exhaust=20 (rich mixture due to cold temp), noise and spinning prop flange you = could=20 not tell it was running. It was dead smooth. It was kind of weird = walking=20 were the prop usually is while it was running. Not a good habit. =

All=20 three starts produced good oil press at around 2600 = fpm.

Check the=20 basics (or so I hope and this isn't some new anomolie). =

Mark, the=20 ecu is back in. The engine seems to be running strong and smooth. I = am=20 developing just a hair over 6300 rpm static at about 34 map. That is = with=20 the IVO inflight adjustable set at it's finest setting of about 45 = degree.=20

Another distraction is my EGT readings working.  I have = discussed this previously and still need to assess it along with bad = fuel=20 pressure readings.

My current project, if the oil pressure = is ok, is=20 to develop a hot start routine. Currently it wants full rich and a = few shots=20 of prime for a cold start. Cold it starts easily.

However, = warm=20 start is a pita. I seem to be having luck with severe lean mixture = until it=20 catches and fires up. Otherwise, it seems just about to catch, but = doesn't=20 quite do so. It may take a few attempt and excessive cranking, and = of course=20 holding my tongue just right. Also, what seems to have made a big = difference=20 too and making warm cranks better is two new batteries with a = combined=20 cranking amps of 710, up from what was probably only about 350 ish = CAmps=20 before. 

Other than that I am working on the devil in = the=20 details. Geesh there are a lot of details, but at last hopefully it = is not=20 proof of concept, but flight ready. 

Questions??????=20 :-)

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Dec 25, 2010, at 3:41 PM, = "Mark=20 Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

> Chris, 
>
> You've been silent = for too=20 long.  I was curious if you ever got your EC-2 back from being = checked=20 & upgraded?  If so, was that the problem?  How about a = status=20 update? 
>
> Mark

--
Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =20 = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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