X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4472315 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 05:41:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so4384358iwn.25 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 02:40:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=LrL5WtwOdTF0ybdGAD/EoY9AA5MW7FKXXHaBRc5wLlA=; b=WTqJ7IeXmtMf+oKXPrqkuIm/py1WlRhGxbZ7FTeqL6G41u0hmAyFBnWrUjiLBJqQQ5 yvGIoPv42bF0Ken8p9dcXC7IAKYJ+Ub8uy+sScZwx1PTMdiBb3O09cBz3q5JIPgs/IgE ViOSJQt30nGiCY4GOX7tVZsgvxN5N4Ww2wKMI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=SLSuk21kVEUX6iofkHwR+luCVPevIreHaHnHekK3ey3a5hjrTA4fsTlMCX/qZdK/de CAEOr7wI/gP99K0BIP7y1y5b1kh5IEOEPDKRQPfsQX+ad4oMddJY++ejxlfe+qadxB76 Z9t2EYB3pViqtsd2eO9cUwDIP34uSvUlLMIYQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.33.129 with SMTP id h1mr6915497ibd.140.1284889255501; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 02:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.173.137 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 2010 02:40:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 04:40:55 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Watch that psru oil seal From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325574a52a660ff0490999729 --000325574a52a660ff0490999729 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, My custom adapter plate was built on a Bridgeport mill. The hole spacing (and sizes) were obtained from a drawing for the actual RD-2C plate. Could it be a thou or two oversize? I guess that's possible, but I don't think so. The machinist that did the work is very meticulous. However, before reassembly, I'll definitely check it to be sure. The bottom line is that there is 90-100 psi trying to push it out of place. So, I feel that a mechanical fastener is the only real way to guarantee that it stays put 100% of the time. Mark On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > Do you think your custom adapter plate counter-bore may be slightly > large in ID > which could have allowed the seal to work loose ??..............Just a > thought as my > adapter plate is custom (not from Tracy) to adapt my RD1C to a Mazda > automatic > transmission bell housing much like Bulent's "Cosy" Cosmo 13B > installation......... > I will compare the counter-bore of the plate from Tracy to my custom > plate and > also add a mechanical retainer such as you describe...............Seems > like cheap > insurance against a failure that could kill your engine in 2 minutes > plus potentially > cause an inflight fire.........Good Thinking and flying Mark > !!.............. > > Photo attached > > > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_Turbo/13B ROTARY Engine(Eventually) > > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Back-plate/Oil Manifold > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 9:40:00 PM > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Watch that psru oil seal > > First, let me make it perfectly clear that I'm not going for the Ed > Anderson "Deadstick" plaque. Ed has earned it and as far as I'm > concerned he can just as well keep it. > > A little background: I'm running a N/A p-ported 20B powered Lancair ES. > I recently changed back to the old style CAS from the Renesis style CAS due > to inability to get the engine to run smoothly. This turns out to have been > a good decision because the engine is running much better with the old style > CAS. With the switch completed, I was ready for some ground running and > some fast taxi runs. This was accomplished on Friday, 9/17. It ran very > good, 100% improvement over the other (Renesis) CAS, reaching 6800 rpm > during the fast taxi. After doing a fast taxi, it felt good and everything > was in the green, so I decided to take a lap around the pattern. > It accelerated and climbed like you would expect from a p-port 3-rotor. As > I was turning downwind, I thought I saw a faint bit of smoke in the cabin. > I tried to detect if it was electrical in nature or oil. I thought it > smelled more like oil. I throttled back and watched the EM-2 for a sign of > what could be wrong. About 3/4 ways down the downwind leg the oil pressure > had dropped and was reading 53 psi. (The oil pressure normally runs around > 80psi.) I throttled back, announced my intentions, and headed for the > numbers. I was the only a/c in the pattern at the time. I had to slip it a > bit, but got on the ground without delay and taxied off the runway and > parked. The oil pressure had dropped to 14 psi bythe time I got it > shut down. The whole episode maybe lasted 2 minutes. > > Upon climbing out I could see that there was oil blown out of the side cowl > seams all down both sides of the fuse (I'm fortunate it didn't coat the > windscreen). Oil was dripping out the nose gear fairing and was forming a > puddle on the asphalt. I tried to imagine what could possibly have > failed... oil line, oil cooler, oil filter, etc. I towed it back to the > hangar and pulled the upper cowl. A quick look and it was evident that the > rear psru seal was the cause. It had come out of position and had rubbed on > the damper hub until it abraded through the rubber. This allowed oil to > flow out around the input shaft at the rear of the gearbox and be sprayed > all over the inner cowl. Yes, I'm very lucky there was no fire! > > I would like to point out that while I'm running an RD-2C gearbox, I'm > using a custom adapter plate which relocates the starter to the plugs side > of the engine. The seal is strictly a press fit into a counter-bore in the > 1/2" aluminum plate with no mechanical locking device. > > I have since removed the gearbox and plan to install a new seal with > two flathead screws which will be positioned so as to mechanically > retain the seal in the counterbore, preventing a recurrence. > > I post this only to make others aware of a potential failure mode that they > may otherwise not recognized as such. > > Mark > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --000325574a52a660ff0490999729 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly,=A0

My custom adapter plate was built on a Bridgep= ort mill. =A0The hole spacing (and sizes) were obtained from a drawing for = the actual RD-2C plate. =A0Could it be a thou or two oversize? =A0I guess t= hat's possible, but I don't think so. =A0The machinist that did the= work is very meticulous. =A0However, before reassembly, I'll definitel= y check it to be sure. =A0The bottom line is that there is 90-100 psi tryin= g to push it out of place. =A0So, I feel that a mechanical fastener is the = only real way to guarantee that it stays put 100% of the time. =A0

Mark

On Sun, Sep 19, = 2010 at 12:28 AM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0=A0 Do you think your custom adapter plate counter-bore may be slig= htly large in ID
which could have allowed the seal to work loose ??..............Just a= thought as my
adapter plate is custom (not from Tracy) to adapt my RD1C to a=A0Mazda= automatic
transmission bell housing much like=A0Bulent's "Cosy" Co= smo 13B installation.........
=A0 =A0I will compare the counter-bore of the plate from Tracy to my c= ustom plate and
also add=A0a mechanical retainer such as you describe...............Se= ems like cheap
insurance=A0against a failure that could kill your engine in 2 minutes= plus=A0potentially
cause an inflight fire.........Good Thinking and flying Mark !!.......= .......
=A0
Photo attached
=A0

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_Turbo/13B ROTARY Engine(Eventuall= y)

"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Back-plate/Oil Manif= old



From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com&g= t;
To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, September 18, 201= 0 9:40:00 PM

Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Watch that psru oil seal

First, let me=A0make it perfectly clear that I'm not going for the= Ed Anderson "Deadstick" plaque.=A0 Ed has earned it and as far a= s I'm concerned=A0he can just as well keep it.
=A0
A=A0little background:=A0 I'm running a N/A=A0p-ported 20B powered= Lancair ES.=A0 I=A0recently changed back to the old style CAS from the=A0R= enesis style CAS due to=A0inability to get the=A0engine to=A0run smoothly.= =A0 This turns out to have been a good decision because=A0the engine is run= ning much better with the old style CAS.=A0 With the switch completed, I wa= s ready for some ground running and some fast taxi runs.=A0 This was accomp= lished on Friday, 9/17.=A0 It ran very good, 100% improvement over the othe= r (Renesis) CAS, reaching 6800 rpm during the fast taxi.=A0=A0After=A0doing= =A0a fast taxi, it felt good and everything was in the green, so I decided = to take a lap around the pattern.=A0 It=A0accelerated and climbed=A0like yo= u would expect from a p-port 3-rotor.=A0 As I was turning downwind, I thoug= ht I saw=A0a faint bit of smoke in the cabin.=A0 I=A0tried to detect if it was electrical in nature or oil.=A0 I thought it smelled more like oil.= =A0 I throttled back and watched the EM-2 for=A0a sign of what could be wro= ng.=A0 About 3/4 ways=A0down the downwind leg=A0the oil pressure had droppe= d and was reading 53 psi.=A0 (The oil pressure=A0normally runs around 80psi= .)=A0 I throttled back, announced my intentions,=A0and headed for the numbe= rs.=A0=A0I was the only a/c in the pattern at the time.=A0 I=A0had to slip = it a bit, but got on the ground without delay and=A0taxied off the runway a= nd parked.=A0=A0The oil pressure had dropped to 14 psi=A0bythe time=A0I got= it shut=A0down.=A0 The whole episode maybe=A0lasted 2 minutes.=A0=A0
=A0
Upon=A0climbing out I could see that there was oil blown out of the si= de cowl seams all down both sides of the fuse (I'm fortunate it didn= 9;t coat the windscreen).=A0 Oil was dripping out the=A0nose gear fairing a= nd=A0was forming a puddle on the asphalt.=A0 I tried to imagine what could = possibly have failed... oil line, oil cooler, oil filter, etc.=A0 I towed i= t back to the hangar and pulled the upper cowl.=A0=A0A quick look and=A0it = was evident that the rear psru seal was the cause.=A0 It had=A0come out of= =A0position and=A0had rubbed on the damper hub until it=A0abraded through t= he rubber.=A0 This allowed oil to flow out around the input shaft at the re= ar of the gearbox and be sprayed all over the inner cowl.=A0 Yes, I'm v= ery lucky there was no fire!=A0
=A0
I would like to point out that while I'm running an RD-2C gearbox,= =A0I'm using=A0a custom adapter plate=A0which relocates the starter to = the plugs side of the engine.=A0 The seal is strictly a press fit into a co= unter-bore in the 1/2" aluminum plate=A0with no mechanical locking dev= ice.=A0=A0
=A0
I have since removed the gearbox and=A0plan to install a new seal with= two=A0flathead screws which will=A0be positioned so as to=A0mechanically r= etain=A0the seal in the counterbore, preventing=A0a recurrence.=A0=A0
=A0
I post this=A0only to=A0make=A0others aware=A0of a potential failure m= ode that=A0they may=A0otherwise not=A0recognized as such.
=A0
Mark =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0

--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html


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