X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from securemail.ever-tek.com ([64.129.170.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4470719 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:49:50 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from fcd-mail06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([2002:404:40b::404:40b]) by FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([::1]) with mapi; Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:48:42 -0500 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: RPM drop out on EM2 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: RPM drop out on EM2 Thread-Index: AQHLVZ+3xahwP5ZwrkGVkDqHjVDm+ZMWU5mR Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:45:31 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032698E54@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032698E54FCDMAIL06FCDATA_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032698E54FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032698E54FCDMAIL06FCDATA_" --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D3032698E54FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My goodness Jeff, THANK YOU. That is extremely helpful and will allow me t= o tackle the task. Now that I see what is expected, I know it to be within= my skill set. I was curious how it would tie in to my harness., your illu= strations show it perfectly. I purchased the parts yesterday based on Trac= y's email Thanks Tracy. Enjoy CO ;-) Maybe I will be flying by your return.....naaa= ahhhhhh! Chris ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Jeff Whaley [jwhaley@datacast.com] Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RPM drop out on EM2 Hi Chris: I=92ve tried to put together a pictorial method of what you need to do. For the rpm drop, I suggest you cut the injector-drive-to-tachometer wire a= bout 4 inches away from the EM2 connector, slide a 2=94 piece of 1/8 heat-s= hrink over each end, strip the insulation off about =BE inches from the now= 2 ends, then splice a resistor in series, similar to photo 001 attached = =85 You could stop here and see what the resistors does on its own, there w= ill be some internal capacitance in the EM2, to assist the resistor in filt= ering. Another way to add capacitance is: at the resistor end closest to the EC2 s= plice in a capacitor and ground wire as shown 002 =85 use a bit of solder o= n each splice joint =85 the ground wire goes to any ground point. Add a pi= ece of heat-shrink to the ground wire; slide all heat-shrinks close togethe= r (003) and shrink them with a heat gun. This method requires, axial-lead = components; I suggest 5-10K resistor and a 0.01 uF capacitor. Make sure it= is only the pick-up wire for the tachometer that you cut and splice =85 do= not cut the EC2-to-Injector wire. Jeff From: Chris Barber Subject: RPM drop out on EM2 (too close to first flight to procrastinate) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 18:48:13 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] This issue has been briefly discussed before. Specifically in May of 2009 = by Don Walker with the topic of "Fine Tuning" 2. Starting at about 6000 RPM, the RPM display on the EM-2 starts dropping = out. By the time the RPM gets to 6500 or so it is almost completely gone, = but comes back when I reduce the throttle. I have an optical prop tach so = I know it's speed with some possible solutions further down in the email I have had an e-mail discussion with Tracy and he says there may be an El= ectrical noise problem. He wrote, "a cap and a resistor on the injector li= ne to the EM-2". That's it, but no specifics or drawings. Anyone have any= thoughts on this? Right now I have EC-2 line 17 hooked to line p3-6 on th= e EM-2. It was suggested to do this to make the signal stronger rather tha= n have it just come via the serial lines. By the way, I'm not an EE or ele= ctronics tech so I really don't know what I'm doing, just a guy who can usu= ally follow directions. I suspect there may be a common cause to all this.= Perhaps it is electrical noise. It seems to be part of it. If the noise= problem takes care of some of this, great. Then on to the remaining. My = next experiment will be to run the engine with only the Essential buss on a= nd see if anything changes. I only have one Ground line off my battery to = the Firewall ground. If I remember correctly, 2 grounds run off that to th= e engine and that's it. This cutting edge stuff takes forever. Thankfully= it's not bleeding edge. Don, Tracy...Ed....??? Was there a resolution to this issue as I am having = the same thing happen to me. As I approach 6000 rpm the display on the EM2= drops out to zero, but may flash other values as well. When I pull back o= n the throttle, the display to appear to become happier and display what I = think/hope is accurate but will drop out again if I add power. I was somewhat pleased that this was described on an RV since often the fir= st thing folks will key in on for my project is the long wire runs on my Ve= locity. Course, it could be the long wire runs, but RV's do not usually ha= ve this particular issue. I also, like Don mentioned in his original post, am not a EE, but am usuall= y somewhat trainable. I would have no idea of where to start to address th= ese issues....especially such as adding a cap and resistor. Heck, I don't = even know what a cap is and just kinda sorto know what a resistor is. Also= , what "size" of these items would be used and how would they be used??????= installed?????etc????? I thought I would touch base here before I considered troubling Tracy with = a call based in ignorance and frustration. I did search the archives (as e= videnced by finding Don's post), however, determining WHAT to search for ca= n be a bit elusive as times. I am really quite close to potential first flight. Other than a few gremli= ns like the one mentioned, I am pretty much left with readjusting the toe i= n since the wings and engine have been installed, setting the wing incidenc= es to the canard again and weighing the thing...oh, and calling my local DA= R. Another gremlin for your consideration. Again, concerning the EM2, I have = had the displayed numerals disappear. They will then come back. I have RE= -checked the wires and all is as it should be, as it has been when I checke= d in the past. It may be the rheostat connection as it is the only thing = I have not yet checked and it sorta acts as if the rheostat has bee turned. Finally, again, EM2, my EGT readings are jumping all over the place. From = maybe 300 degrees to 8500 degrees. It appears random and jumps all over t= he place. Not surprising it trips my "trouble light". Again, I have check= ed and rechecked the wires and connections. My next troubleshooting check = will be to pull the sensors themselves from the turbo manifold. I am wonde= ring if I placed the sensors too close to the rotary exhaust (about 3 inche= s from the ports) and I fried the sensors. Tracy's tech day is Saturday, Right??? Thanks in advance guys. I would not have come this far without ya. All the best, Chris Barber Houston Velocity N17010 Jeff Whaley Manager, Test and Repair International Datacasting Corp. Tele: 613-596-4120 (ext: 2295) Fax: 613-596-9208 www.datacast.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5453 (20100915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5453 (20100915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5454 (20100916) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5454 (20100916) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 5454 (20100916) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. 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My goodness Jeff, THANK YOU.  That is extremely<= a> helpful and will allow me to tackle the task.  Now that I see w= hat is expected, I know it to be within my skill set.  I was curious h= ow it would tie in to my harness., your illustrations show it perfectly.  I purchased the parts yesterday bas= ed on Tracy's email
 
Thanks Tracy.  Enjoy CO ;-)  Maybe I will be flying by your = return.....naaaahhhhhh!
 
Chris
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Jeff Whaley [jwhaley@datacast.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 8:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RPM drop out on EM2

Hi Chris:

I=92ve tried to put together a pictorial method of w= hat you need to do.

For the rpm drop, I suggest you cut the injector-dri= ve-to-tachometer wire about 4 inches away from the EM2 connector, slide a 2= =94 piece of 1/8 heat-shrink over each end, strip the insulation off about = =BE inches from the now 2 ends, then splice a resistor in series, similar to photo 001 attached =85 You could stop her= e and see what the resistors does on its own, there will be some internal c= apacitance in the EM2, to assist the resistor in filtering.

Another way to add capacitance is: at the resistor e= nd closest to the EC2 splice in a capacitor and ground wire as shown 002 = =85 use a bit of solder on each splice joint =85 the ground wire goes to an= y ground point.  Add a piece of heat-shrink to the ground wire; slide all heat-shrinks close together (003) and shrink= them with a heat gun.  This method requires, axial-lead components; I= suggest 5-10K resistor and a 0.01 uF capacitor.  Make sure it is only= the pick-up wire for the tachometer that you cut and splice =85 do not cut the EC2-to-Injector wire. 

Jeff

 

From:

Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net>

Subject:

RPM drop out on EM2 (too close to first flight to procrasti= nate)

Date:

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 18:48:13 +0000

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t;

3D"Message 

This issue has been briefly discussed before.  Specifi= cally in May of 2009 by Don Walker with the topic of "Fine Tuning"= ;

 

2. Starting at about 6000 RPM, the RPM display on the EM-2 starts dropping = out.  By the time the RPM gets to 6500 or so it is almost complete= ly gone, but comes back when I reduce the throttle.  I have an optical= prop tach so I know it's speed

with some possible solutions further down in the email=

 

  I have had an e-mail discussion with Tracy and he sa= ys there may be an Electrical noise problem.  He wrote, "a cap an= d a resistor on the injector line to the EM-2".  That's it, but no specifics or drawings.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?&= nbsp; Right now I have EC-2 line 17 hooked to line p3-6 on the EM-2.  = It was suggested to do this to make the signal stronger rather than have it= just come via the serial lines.  By the way, I'm not an EE or electronics tech so I really don't know what I'm doing, just = a guy who can usually follow directions.  I suspect there may be a com= mon cause to all this.  Perhaps it is electrical noise.  It seems= to be part of it.  If the noise problem takes care of some of this, great.  Then on to the remaining.  My next= experiment will be to run the engine with only the Essential buss on and s= ee if anything changes.  I only have one Ground line off my battery to= the Firewall ground.  If I remember correctly, 2 grounds run off that to the engine and that's it.  This cutting edg= e stuff takes forever.  Thankfully it's not bleeding edge.

 

Don, Tracy...Ed....??? Was there a resolution to this issue= as I am having the same thing happen to me.  As I approach 6000 rpm t= he display on the EM2 drops out to zero, but may flash other values as well.  When I pull back on the throttle= , the display to appear to become happier and display what I think/hope is = accurate but will drop out again if I add power.

 

I was somewhat pleased that this was described on an R= V since often the first thing folks will key in on for my project is the lo= ng wire runs on my Velocity.  Course, it could be the long wire runs, but RV's do not usually have this particular = issue.

 

I also, like Don mentioned in his original post, am not a E= E, but am usually somewhat trainable.  I would have no idea of where t= o start to address these issues....especially such as adding a cap and resistor.  Heck, I don't even know what= a cap is and just kinda sorto know what a resistor is.  Als= o, what "size" of these items would be used and how would they be= used??????installed?????etc?????

 

I thought I would touch base here before I considered troub= ling Tracy with a call based in ignorance and frustration.  I did sear= ch the archives (as evidenced by finding Don's post), however, determining WHAT to search for can be a bit elu= sive as times.

 

I am really quite close to potential first flight.  Ot= her than a few gremlins like the one mentioned, I am pretty much left = with readjusting the toe in since the wings and engine have been installed, setting the wing incidences to the canard agai= n and weighing the thing...oh, and calling my local DAR.

Another gremlin for your consideration.  Again,&n= bsp;concerning the EM2, I have had the displayed numerals disappear.  = They will then come back.  I have RE-checked the wires and all is as it should be, as it has been when I checked in the past.  I= t may be the rheostat  connection as it is the only thing I = have not yet checked and it sorta acts as if the rheostat has bee= turned.

 

Finally, again, EM2, my EGT readings are jumping all o= ver the place.  From maybe  300 degrees to 8500 degrees.  It= appears random and jumps all over the place.  Not surprising it trips my "trouble light".  Again, I have checked and rec= hecked the wires and connections.  My next troubleshooting check will = be to pull the sensors themselves from the turbo manifold.  I am wonde= ring if I placed the sensors too close to the rotary exhaust (about 3 inches from the ports) and I fried the sensors.

 

Tracy's tech day is Saturday, Right???

 

Thanks in advance guys. I would not have come this far with= out ya.

 

All the best,

 

Chris Barber

Houston

Velocity N17010

 

 

Jeff Whaley
Manager, Test and Repair=

International Dat= acasting Corp.

Tele: 613-596-412= 0 (ext: 2295)
Fax:  613-596-9208

www.datacast.com