X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.9) with ESMTP id 4464857 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:48:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=p2+AJtORPCqgiIb1GLnEzM38JG/9906BinLiWeI6YUU= c=1 sm=0 a=9f8lwO49qKIA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_jAv8Xgsq2hQBVqkkIAA:9 a=KY_rvj2PtMeCVXW4FZIA:7 a=7l36fGWp5OxoZi-CQSv9bKIVnxAA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=P1DngaxNftTtyz3lMYcA:9 a=i_m5qPiJAuvPKu0v7DIA:7 a=skdNAd26iGq0OVO_2rNs_YHdsGcA:4 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:63273] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 77/5B-06845-D8D1E8C4; Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:48:13 +0000 Message-ID: <0D13EB5A1C484CFC9C30E2C4172B32AC@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 08:48:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010E_01CB5320.639E9FF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01CB5320.639E9FF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, now that is more like it. Glad you found the problem so quickly. = Yes, my Mustang 65 MM TB has its spring swapped so that it will pop = wide open incase of cable failure. Lets hear about that next flight tuesday Ed From: bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight Was it the restrictive air filter? No. Was it tuning? No. Was it a = restrictive exhaust? No. Was it the stupid $@%^& spring that I used to = pull the throttle open in case of a broken cable? Uh -huh! = Re-configured it, now, instead of getting 4400 RPM and 100 hp, I get = 5600 and 190 hp on a static ground run. The brakes can barely hold the = plane back at full throttle on pavement.=20 Next flight should be on tuesday.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sun, Sep 12, 2010 10:04 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight Brian, If using the 2.85:1 then 4800 rpm is definitely on the low side, = Tracy was referring to his rpm of 4800 when using the 2.71:1. With my = old 13B and a 2.85:1, I get 6000 rpm static with a 75x88 prop, so I = would say you need to be above 5500 rpm. I think you stated you reached = that with the cowl off.=20 Check and make certain that there are not any intake hoses to/from the = throttle body that can collapse or close/clamp down. I know of one = situation where an air filter apparently cause just enough lower = pressure in an intake to cause the intake hose the builder was using = from TB to manifold to crush and restrict air flow. Once the filter = was removed the problem would clear up - it took longer than you might = think to discover that was the problem. So if you can get 5500 rpm without cowl and only 4800 with cowl/filter - = something is a miss. At 4800 rpm 14.7:1 air fuel ratio, you are making around 115 Hp, = assuming you have it rich (12.65:1) then its around 130 HP. I flew on = around 130 Hp for the first year or so it took me to get my problem = identified and fixed. The RV will fly fine (if a little lacking in = performance on take off and climb) on 130 HP, my top speed was 186 MPH - = not steriling for an RV but better than most single engine certified by = far. Go get'er done Ed From: Bktrub@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:00 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight I'm using the 2.85 to one, I'll try some tuning first before I remove = the air filter. It's easier to turn a know than to remove the air = filter. I'm pretty sure I'm running way too rich.=20 Brian Trubee ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01CB5320.639E9FF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  Ah, now that is more like it.  Glad = you found=20 the problem so quickly.    Yes, my Mustang 65 MM TB has = its=20 spring swapped so that it will pop wide open incase of cable=20 failure.
 
Lets hear about that next flight = tuesday
 
Ed

Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 11:16 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight

Was it the = restrictive air=20 filter? No. Was it tuning? No. Was it a restrictive exhaust? = No. Was=20 it the stupid $@%^& spring that I used to = pull the=20 throttle open in case of a broken  cable? Uh -huh! =  Re-configured it,=20 now, instead of getting 4400 RPM and 100 hp, I get 5600 and 190 hp on a = static=20 ground run. The=20 brakes can barely hold the plane back at full throttle on = pavement.=20

Next = flight should be=20 on tuesday. 

Brian=20 Trubee



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Sun, Sep=20 12, 2010 10:04 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight

Brian, If using the 2.85:1 then 4800 rpm is = definitely on the=20 low side, Tracy was referring to his rpm of 4800 when using the = 2.71:1. =20 With my old 13B and a 2.85:1, I get 6000 rpm static with a 75x88 prop, = so I=20 would say you need to be above 5500 rpm.  I think you stated you = reached=20 that with the cowl off. 
 
 Check and make certain that there are not any = intake=20 hoses to/from the throttle body that can collapse or close/clamp = down.  I=20 know of one situation where an air filter apparently cause just enough = lower=20 pressure in an intake to cause the intake hose the builder was using = from TB to=20 manifold to crush and restrict air flow.   Once the filter was = removed=20 the problem would clear up - it took longer than you might think to = discover=20 that was the problem.
 
So if you can get 5500 rpm without cowl and only = 4800 with=20 cowl/filter - something is a miss.
 
At 4800 rpm 14.7:1 air fuel ratio, you are making=20 around   115 Hp,   assuming you have it rich = (12.65:1) then=20 its around 130 HP.  I flew on around 130 Hp for the first year or = so it=20 took me to get my problem identified and fixed.  The RV will fly = fine (if a=20 little lacking in performance on take off and climb) on 130 HP, my top = speed was=20 186 MPH - not steriling for an RV but better than most single engine = certified=20 by far.
 
Go get'er done
 
Ed

From: Bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight

I'm using the 2.85 to one, I'll try some tuning first before I = remove the=20 air filter. It's easier to turn a know than to remove the air filter. = I'm pretty=20 sure I'm running way too rich.
 
Brian Trubee
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