From: Lehanover@aol.com
Message-ID: <4d.39770dfe.2d2a164f@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 20:22:23 EST
Subject: Comments on Comments
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
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Improve the engines:

And there is no reason that the private industry can't do this.  Lycoming=20
started out making sewing machines and bicycles, they got into engines=20
because of demand in the market place.

There is no reason for the big two to do anything to improve anything. There=
=20
is only the bottom line. They have a totally captive audience. You have to b=
uy=20
OEM parts by law.
They have a giant cash cow running now. Why screw around with it. If they=20
could think of a way to ship you an empty box with Lycoming stamped on the s=
ide,=20
and get away with it, they
would be doing that. It=E2=80=99s just business to them. =20


Every year at OSH and SNF there are new engines.  And then the following=20
year they are gone.  The people that show up with them must not be racers.


Well now, if that was United Technologies standing there with that new desig=
n=20
instead
an average guy with a great idea and no money, would it be successful? You=20
can bet the farm it would. United Technologies would lowball request for quo=
tes=20
from airframe builders, who would be idiots not to use the new "Pratt and=20
Whitney" Which P&W is going to give away (in effect) in large quantities to=20=
all of=20
the major airframe manufacturers.

How so? There is a filter manufacturer that makes a very high (aircraft and=20
submarine) quality line of products. Let us call them Giant Filter Corp. The=
ir=20
catalogue is on the shelves of every airplane and ship manufacturer. So=20
airplane builder Skunk Works, publishes a top drawing with size and performa=
nce=20
data. Burst strength, absolute micron rating and so on, for a 4,000 PSI hydr=
aulic=20
flight control system, on the new Skunk Works model Whatever.

A number of filter manufacturers submit drawings with the same values as=20
those specified on the Request for quote top drawing, Along with their best=20=
price=20
per unit and quantity price break structure. So let us say that three=20
companies are around $2,200.00 per unit. But our friends at Giant Filter Cor=
p come in=20
at $125.00, and a much better price break structure. Everyone in the filter=20
industry knows that Giant Filter Corp is going to loose their butts on every=
=20
unit. But (excuse the pun) Giant Filter doesn't care because they will then=20=
be=20
the OEM for a total of thirty two filter assemblies on the Skunk Works model=
=20
Whatever. When your beloved Federal Government starts buying replacement ele=
ments=20
and complete assemblies, the price is now $12,000.00, and the replacement=20
element is $2,650.00.  Out year sales for this filter alone are estimated at=
 5.5=20
million. And they own thirty two filters on this airframe. That same Giant=20
Filter Corp filter is also in their commercial catalogue with a different pa=
rt=20
number, as is the element. The price is $2,200 and the elements are $125.00=20
each.=20


The prices would come down because we the people, could start our own engine=
=20
company.=20

There is no reason why this can't happen.  The point I have been trying to=20
get across is that there have been dozens of attempts to create viable=20
aircraft engines by very qualified and well funded people.  Orenda's=20
Chrysler conversion comes to mind as a group of "racers" that tried to make=20
big block Chryslers run with the larger Lycomings and even turbines.  Lets=20
not forget Porsche and their PFM-3200 engines.  One can hardly suggest that=20
the Porsche company does not have the "racers" to back up its 50 year=20
history of performance cars.  They got the engines certified, Mooney built=20
planes for them, and they got STC's to install them in C-172s.  These and=20
others were far from backyard efforts.  They were economically unviable for=20
some reason.


First you should point out that both engines are outstanding pieces of=20
engineering. And years ahead of the big two, lacking only a big price advant=
age that=20
would have generated any interest at all.=20

The price would have to be low enough that the conversion would make some=20
kind of sense to potential customers. I think the Orenda is a proprietary ca=
sting=20
along BB Chevy lines.=20

Neither effort was well funded. United Technologies could buy both operation=
s=20
and run them through a shredder with a weeks worth of the coffee fund.

If you want to play, set aside 100 million and be prepared to support that=20
investment for ten years before you get back anything. But by then all new=20
airframes will be equipped with your new design, because you will be practic=
ally=20
giving them to Piper and others. The big two will be making sewing machines=20
again. Or airboat motors that won=E2=80=99t kill my friends when it swallows=
 a valve.

Drop in to Sun&Fun and take a look at the rotary engine parking row at the=20
west end of the show line. Maybe a rotary will win the Sun 100 again. If Tra=
cy=20
would let me work over his engine for a few weeks, he could put that record=20
speed up where no piston engine could ever find it.

Lynn E. Hanover.   =20

=20