X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c1) with ESMTP id 3961508 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:55:10 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E757173A0B for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:54:31 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 936AABEC025 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:54:29 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground loops? n[FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:54:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091108-1, 11/08/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Steve, How about a ( or intermittent) broken earth battery cable. George ( down under) > Ed, > Good thought, but all of the grounding is identical to what is was before. > None of the EC-2 wiring changed, except for adding a couple of wires going > to the EM-3. I did pull all of the wires through the firewall to install > a larger grommet to accommodate more wires for sensors, and the air lines > from pitot and static to the EM-3. The old one was only 3/4" and packed > full. The new one is 1-1/2", so much more room. > > Steve > > Ed Anderson wrote: >> Steve, when you changed engines, did you make any changes to your power >> buss, in particular are you grounding certain components (such as EC3) to >> different locations than you did before? What I am thinking of is the >> "ground loops" that seemed to have it in for composite aircraft? >> I've know of folks turning an inoperative system into a working system by >> just changing the grounding point - therefore the question. >> >> Ed >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> http://www.andersonee.com >> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> >> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >> Behalf Of Steve Brooks >> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:59 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after >> engine replacement >> >> Steve Brooks wrote: >> >> I was able to tap into the front rotor primary injector, and I do see >> pulses when cranking the engine. I have a few bright white LED's with >> the resistor in them to run on 12 VDC, so I tapped into the trigger, >> connecting the negative lead to the injector trigger lead. The LED makes >> it quite easy to see the injector trigger. Sometimes I see steady pulses >> of 1 or 2 per second while cranking. But, several times it stopped >> pulses, or missed several. I see many more pulses on the rotor one >> injector, but still not consistent and steady as you would expect. >> Ran the injector test, and it looked normal. Has to be with the CAS or >> controller I would suspect, but I'm not sure how to go about testing the >> CAS. >> >> Steve >> >>> Bobby, >>> The 2nd gen CAS is 4 wires, though two of them get hooked together. >>> I've doubled checked those connections tot he EC-2 and verified >>> continuity lead by lead. I've never tried to look at the CAS signal, >>> and I'm not sure what it looks like. But, my test equipment is limited >>> to a digital voltmeter, and a logic probe. I wish that I still had an >>> oscilloscope at time like this. Nothing like a picture. >>> >>> Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> Sure sounds like the same symptoms I observed with my CAS problems. I >>>> know the Renesis CAS is different. Is your CAS a two wire circuit. If >>>> so >>>> I would try reversing the CAS wires at the EC3. If the EC3 is lowering >>>> the CAS voltage (speculation on my part) I would want the voltage >>>> correction on the CAS output to the EC3. If on the input the voltage >>>> might be to low during cranking. Just speculation. >>>> Bobby >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >>>> Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:52 AM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after >>>> engine replacement >>>> >>>> I've been testing it all morning, and while I have tested it in a >>>> number >>>> of ways, I still have no clue why I'm not getting consistent spark. >>>> I pulled a plug from each rotor, and clamped it to a ground, so that >>>> first of all, the engine would spin faster with a plug out of each >>>> rotor, and second, I could see two spark plugs instead of just one. >>>> >>>> I probably did 15-20 cranks of 5 seconds each. I "usually" get an >>>> inital spark off of the front rotor and nothing else, but there were >>>> times that it didn't spark at all, and once that it sparked once after >>>> 2 >>>> or 3 seconds of cranking. >>>> >>>> On the rear rotor, I do not get the initial spark, but it does spark >>>> maybe 5 or 6 times during 5 seconds of cranking, but very hit and miss. >>>> >>>> I might see two close together, followed by nothing for a second or >>>> two. >>>> >>>> I checked the coil wiring from the EC-2 plug to the GM wiring harness >>>> connector, and all was perfect. I also pulled two connector off of the >>>> LS1 coils and checked for continuity. Still no issue. since I had one >>>> apart, I decided to hook up the logic probe to the trigger pin. With >>>> the master on, I see a low signal, and when I start cranking, the low >>>> signal goes away. Though I could not see any LEDs on the probe blink, >>>> when I flipped the switch to pulses, it was showing steady pulses. >>>> Obviously of a very short duration, or I should have seen the high / >>>> low >>>> LED's blinking. I am guessing that since the low signal goes away when >>>> cranking, the EC-2 must be seeing a sufficient RPM from the CAS. But >>>> this is guessing. >>>> I also verified all of the power andf grounds to the coils and EC-2. I >>>> am just not finding anything wrong in the wiring. I had redone the >>>> wiring, and although I was pretty careful about tagging everything, >>>> there is always a risk of getting something wrong, but I checked and >>>> double checked with nothing out of place. >>>> >>>> I ran the mode 8 test again to watch both plugs I had out, and it >>>> produces consistent sparks that are bright blue. >>>> The only wiring that I haven't double checked is the new wiring to the >>>> EM-3. But, there aren't many connections from the EM-3 to the EC-2, >>>> and >>>> the EM-3 seems to be communicating with the EC-2,as I am not getting >>>> the >>>> "NO-OP" that I have heard others talk about. I really have not messed >>>> with the EM-3 much so far though, because I've first been trying to get >>>> the engine started. >>>> >>>> Right now, I'm recharging the battery. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> My CAS was always wired correctly also. My coils \ plugs fired in test >>>>> >>>> >>>>> mode but not during cranking. Are you having problems with one plugs >>>>> during cranking are all plugs? >>>>> >>>>> Bobby >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:11 AM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start >>>>> after engine replacement >>>>> >>>>> I am running an 89-91 13B engine. Both engines were JDM engines, so I >>>>> >>>> >>>>> assume that the CAS is the correct one. I had about 60 flight hours >>>>> on the origianl engine, and the new CAS is identical to the old one, >>>>> so I think it is correct. >>>>> >>>>> I did have the controller upgraded for the EC-3, but I beleive that >>>>> Tracy tested it also. I don't have anything in between the CAS and >>>>> EC-2, it is just wired per the EC-2 manual. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve, >>>>>> >>>>>> You mention you changed CAS with the new engine and then replaced it >>>>>> with you old CAS. Three questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Did you have any kind of external circuit between the original CAS >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the EC2? Diode matrix etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Did your EC2 go back to Tracy for upgrades between last time it was >>>>>> running and the new engine \ CAS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are you sure you have he correct CAS for your engine \ EC2 version. >>>>>> >>>>>> I had a problem with upgrades \ CAS but it was on a renesis. Very >>>>>> similar to what your describing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Before first start I installed the diode matrix what was being tested >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> and used by some folks. Engine started fine. >>>>>> I sent my EC2 back to Tracy for upgrades and I believe he put the >>>>>> >>>>> "fix" >>>>> >>>>>> on the EC2 during upgrades. When I reinstalled the EM2 it would not >>>>>> start. I ended up removing the external diodes and the engine started >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> right up. Problem solved...sort of. >>>>>> I then started having the high rpm cutout problem because of high CAS >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> voltage. But first I let one sparkplug fall off the engine during >>>>>> testing and it smoked the EC2. So back to Tracy it went. I ended up >>>>>> installing a different resistor \ zener diode circuit that Dennis H >>>>>> and Mark S are using to control the voltage at high rpms. Tracy was >>>>>> at >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> a loss as to why I needed the external circuit with the mod's he has >>>>>> made to my EC2. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bobby Hughes >>>>>> RV10, Gen 1 (low oil pressure) Super Renesis ...err >>>>>> 25 hrs in Phase 1, 68 hrs total engine time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master >>>>>> switch on, it is 12.5 VDC. While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2 >>>>>> VDC. I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts >>>>>> on that. >>>>>> >>>>>> I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was >>>>>> surprised to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 >>>>>> >>>> volts. >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It has a rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the >>>>>> aircraft, so perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering >>>>>> the coils, injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did >>>>>> not >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> have the fuel pump turned on. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is >>>>>> really what I intended with the emergency power bypass. >>>>>> >>>>>> The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure >>>>>> the actual RPM, that I can think of. I did watch the EM-3 during >>>>>> cranking, but I did not see any RPM indication on the display. It >>>>>> stayed at zero the whole time, but that may be normal. I don't know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> >>>>>> Ed Anderson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if >>>>>>> interconnected >>>>>>> >>>>>> - it >>>>>> >>>>>>> may. However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or >>>>>>> >>>> dropping >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> too >>>>>> >>>>>>> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the >>>>>>> required 150 rpm. However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> even get the first spark. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just my 0.02 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed Anderson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matthews, NC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.andersonee.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM >>>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start >>>>>>> after engine replacement >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed, >>>>>>> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing. The >>>>>>> battery >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> is about two years old. It is an Odyssey PC680. I have two >>>>>>> batteries, one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine >>>>>>> stuff, >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> and the other one is in the nose an runs the avionics. I have >>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> heavy cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I >>>>>>> recall, and they are not very long. Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> the started, and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine >>>>>>> >>>>>> block. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking, I also >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical >>>>>>> buss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the >>>>>>> >>>>>> front. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet. I >>>>>>> will see if it shows the RPM during cranking. I'm not sure if it >>>>>>> does >>>>>>> >>>>>> or not. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ed Anderson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve, where is your battery located? Engine compartment or nose?? >>>>>>>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current. New >>>>>>>> engine >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> have higher compression and may take more juice than previous >>>>>>>> engine to turn it over fast enough. The fact that your old engine >>>>>>>> was also hard to start makes me wonder. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ed Anderson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Matthews, NC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.andersonee.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM >>>>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's interesting. I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steven W. Boese wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Steve, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the >>>>>>>>> default >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at >>>>>>>> RPM's >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> less >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8. The >>>>>>>> greater >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> advance, the weaker the spark. Occasionally there will be a strong >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> spark, but the timing on these is very retarded. With my EC2's, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> most consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded >>>>>>>> mode >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> 8 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> setting, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order >>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> make >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> this change. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Steve Boese >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> also added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> start, and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> didn't used to be there. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the >>>>>>>>> connections, >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I had a neighbor help me do some testing. While the ignition test >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> runs fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I >>>>>>>>> initially crank the engine, and then stops. Once in a while there >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> will be another spark, but not very often. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue. I have >>>>>>>>> double checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm >>>>>>>>> meter to the connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check >>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>> out, yet I get only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark >>>>>>>>> plugs with new ones, and whenever I pull one to check it, is is >>>>>>>>> wet >>>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> with fuel, which is no surprise. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you >>>>>>>>> have any suggestions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Steve Brooks >>>>>>>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> signature >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>>> >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >