flyrotary@lancaironline.net Mailing List Archive

Steve, This was all blowing by me as to what else to do until I read that you were using the GM wire harness at the coils. I was having what I would consider to be VERY simular situation. I got inconsistant reading from the coils, which I eventually traced back to the harness. After screwing with it for what seemed forever and getting consistant inconsistant (yeah, can ya tell I am a lawyer with double speak like consistant inconsistancy <g>) readings and engine starting, I finally tore open the harness and while still using the plugs into the bottom of th coils, wired it directly sans hanress. My original lazy thinking was that, gee, the harness is a GM part, it would be the part that DOES work......NOT. That particual issue is not in the past. You may wish to wire it with out the harness with temporary connections to the coils to determine if this is a possibility. While I would not permantly epoxy the wires into the coils electrical connections, it could give you some insight by removing the harness as a problem. I would be hesitant tearing up the harness til you were sure it was the problem, but I am convinced it was mine. May have just been a single bad wire (likely), but that wire was inside the harness. The harness was pretty darn sloppy once opened up too. I am guessin' this is due to it being used in variousl application, but don't really know. All the best, Chris Barber Houston Cpl Christopher Barber, JD. Badge 330 Bellaire Police Department 5100 Jessamine Bellaire, Texas 77401 713-668-0487 CBarber@BellariePolice.com ________________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start afterengine replacement I've been testing it all morning, and while I have tested it in a number of ways, I still have no clue why I'm not getting consistent spark. I pulled a plug from each rotor, and clamped it to a ground, so that first of all, the engine would spin faster with a plug out of each rotor, and second, I could see two spark plugs instead of just one. I probably did 15-20 cranks of 5 seconds each. I "usually" get an inital spark off of the front rotor and nothing else, but there were times that it didn't spark at all, and once that it sparked once after 2 or 3 seconds of cranking. On the rear rotor, I do not get the initial spark, but it does spark maybe 5 or 6 times during 5 seconds of cranking, but very hit and miss. I might see two close together, followed by nothing for a second or two. I checked the coil wiring from the EC-2 plug to the GM wiring harness connector, and all was perfect. I also pulled two connector off of the LS1 coils and checked for continuity. Still no issue. since I had one apart, I decided to hook up the logic probe to the trigger pin. With the master on, I see a low signal, and when I start cranking, the low signal goes away. Though I could not see any LEDs on the probe blink, when I flipped the switch to pulses, it was showing steady pulses. Obviously of a very short duration, or I should have seen the high / low LED's blinking. I am guessing that since the low signal goes away when cranking, the EC-2 must be seeing a sufficient RPM from the CAS. But this is guessing. I also verified all of the power andf grounds to the coils and EC-2. I am just not finding anything wrong in the wiring. I had redone the wiring, and although I was pretty careful about tagging everything, there is always a risk of getting something wrong, but I checked and double checked with nothing out of place. I ran the mode 8 test again to watch both plugs I had out, and it produces consistent sparks that are bright blue. The only wiring that I haven't double checked is the new wiring to the EM-3. But, there aren't many connections from the EM-3 to the EC-2, and the EM-3 seems to be communicating with the EC-2,as I am not getting the "NO-OP" that I have heard others talk about. I really have not messed with the EM-3 much so far though, because I've first been trying to get the engine started. Right now, I'm recharging the battery. Steve Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > Steve, > > My CAS was always wired correctly also. My coils \ plugs fired in test > mode but not during cranking. Are you having problems with one plugs > during cranking are all plugs? > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Steve Brooks > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:11 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after > engine replacement > > I am running an 89-91 13B engine. Both engines were JDM engines, so I > assume that the CAS is the correct one. I had about 60 flight hours on > the origianl engine, and the new CAS is identical to the old one, so I > think it is correct. > > I did have the controller upgraded for the EC-3, but I beleive that > Tracy tested it also. I don't have anything in between the CAS and > EC-2, it is just wired per the EC-2 manual. > > Steve > > Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > >> >> >> Steve, >> >> You mention you changed CAS with the new engine and then replaced it >> with you old CAS. Three questions. >> >> Did you have any kind of external circuit between the original CAS and >> > > >> the EC2? Diode matrix etc. >> >> Did your EC2 go back to Tracy for upgrades between last time it was >> running and the new engine \ CAS. >> >> Are you sure you have he correct CAS for your engine \ EC2 version. >> >> >> I had a problem with upgrades \ CAS but it was on a renesis. Very >> similar to what your describing. >> >> Before first start I installed the diode matrix what was being tested >> and used by some folks. Engine started fine. >> I sent my EC2 back to Tracy for upgrades and I believe he put the >> > "fix" > >> on the EC2 during upgrades. When I reinstalled the EM2 it would not >> start. I ended up removing the external diodes and the engine started >> right up. Problem solved...sort of. >> I then started having the high rpm cutout problem because of high CAS >> voltage. But first I let one sparkplug fall off the engine during >> testing and it smoked the EC2. So back to Tracy it went. I ended up >> installing a different resistor \ zener diode circuit that Dennis H >> and Mark S are using to control the voltage at high rpms. Tracy was at >> > > >> a loss as to why I needed the external circuit with the mod's he has >> made to my EC2. >> >> Bobby Hughes >> RV10, Gen 1 (low oil pressure) Super Renesis ...err >> 25 hrs in Phase 1, 68 hrs total engine time. >> >> >> >> >> >> I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master >> switch on, it is 12.5 VDC. While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2 >> VDC. I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts >> on that. >> >> I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was >> surprised to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 volts. >> > > >> It has a rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the >> aircraft, so perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering >> the coils, injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did not >> > > >> have the fuel pump turned on. >> >> I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is >> really what I intended with the emergency power bypass. >> >> The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure >> the actual RPM, that I can think of. I did watch the EM-3 during >> cranking, but I did not see any RPM indication on the display. It >> stayed at zero the whole time, but that may be normal. I don't know. >> >> Steve >> >> Ed Anderson wrote: >> >> >>> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't >>> think >>> >>> >> >> >>> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if >>> interconnected >>> >>> >> - it >> >> >>> may. However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or dropping >>> >>> >> too >> >> >>> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the >>> required 150 rpm. However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would >>> even get the first spark. >>> >>> Just my 0.02 >>> >>> Ed Anderson >>> >>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>> >>> Matthews, NC >>> >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.andersonee.com >>> >>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>> >>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> >>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>> >>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start >>> after engine replacement >>> >>> Ed, >>> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing. The >>> battery >>> >>> >> >> >>> is about two years old. It is an Odyssey PC680. I have two >>> batteries, one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine >>> stuff, >>> >>> >> >> >>> and the other one is in the nose an runs the avionics. I have pretty >>> > > >>> heavy cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I >>> recall, and they are not very long. Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked to >>> > > >>> the started, and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine >>> >>> >> block. >> >> >>> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking, I also >>> have >>> >>> >> >> >>> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical >>> buss >>> >>> >> >> >>> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I >>> could >>> >>> >> >> >>> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the >>> >>> >> front. >> >> >>> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet. I >>> will see if it shows the RPM during cranking. I'm not sure if it >>> does >>> >>> >> or not. >> >> >>> Steve >>> >>> Ed Anderson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Steve, where is your battery located? Engine compartment or nose?? >>>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current. New >>>> engine >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> may >>> >>> >>> >>>> have higher compression and may take more juice than previous >>>> engine to turn it over fast enough. The fact that your old engine >>>> was also hard to start makes me wonder. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> Ed Anderson >>>> >>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>>> >>>> Matthews, NC >>>> >>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>>> >>>> http://www.andersonee.com >>>> >>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>>> >>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> >>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>>> >>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement >>>> >>>> That's interesting. I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it is >>>> > > >>>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> Steven W. Boese wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the >>>>> default >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at >>>> RPM's >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> less >>> >>> >>> >>>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8. The >>>> greater >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> >>>> advance, the weaker the spark. Occasionally there will be a strong >>>> spark, but the timing on these is very retarded. With my EC2's, the >>>> > > >>>> most consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded >>>> mode >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> 8 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> setting, >>> >>> >>> >>>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> make >>> >>> >>> >>>> this change. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve Boese >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> Of >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement >>>>> >>>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, and >>>>> > > >>>>> also added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard to >>>>> > > >>>>> start, and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, which >>>>> > > >>>>> didn't used to be there. >>>>> >>>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the connections, >>>>> > > >>>>> I had a neighbor help me do some testing. While the ignition test >>>>> runs fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I >>>>> initially crank the engine, and then stops. Once in a while there >>>>> will be another spark, but not very often. >>>>> >>>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue. I have >>>>> double checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm >>>>> meter to the connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check >>>>> out, yet I get only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark >>>>> plugs with new ones, and whenever I pull one to check it, is is wet >>>>> > > >>>>> with fuel, which is no surprise. >>>>> >>>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you >>>>> have any suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Steve Brooks >>>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> signature >>> >>> >>> >>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> signature >>> >>> >>> >>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> >>> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >> >> > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. 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