flyrotary@lancaironline.net Mailing List Archive

Steve, Sure sounds like the same symptoms I observed with my CAS problems. I know the Renesis CAS is different. Is your CAS a two wire circuit. If so I would try reversing the CAS wires at the EC3. If the EC3 is lowering the CAS voltage (speculation on my part) I would want the voltage correction on the CAS output to the EC3. If on the input the voltage might be to low during cranking. Just speculation. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brooks Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 10:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement I've been testing it all morning, and while I have tested it in a number of ways, I still have no clue why I'm not getting consistent spark. I pulled a plug from each rotor, and clamped it to a ground, so that first of all, the engine would spin faster with a plug out of each rotor, and second, I could see two spark plugs instead of just one. I probably did 15-20 cranks of 5 seconds each. I "usually" get an inital spark off of the front rotor and nothing else, but there were times that it didn't spark at all, and once that it sparked once after 2 or 3 seconds of cranking. On the rear rotor, I do not get the initial spark, but it does spark maybe 5 or 6 times during 5 seconds of cranking, but very hit and miss. I might see two close together, followed by nothing for a second or two. I checked the coil wiring from the EC-2 plug to the GM wiring harness connector, and all was perfect. I also pulled two connector off of the LS1 coils and checked for continuity. Still no issue. since I had one apart, I decided to hook up the logic probe to the trigger pin. With the master on, I see a low signal, and when I start cranking, the low signal goes away. Though I could not see any LEDs on the probe blink, when I flipped the switch to pulses, it was showing steady pulses. Obviously of a very short duration, or I should have seen the high / low LED's blinking. I am guessing that since the low signal goes away when cranking, the EC-2 must be seeing a sufficient RPM from the CAS. But this is guessing. I also verified all of the power andf grounds to the coils and EC-2. I am just not finding anything wrong in the wiring. I had redone the wiring, and although I was pretty careful about tagging everything, there is always a risk of getting something wrong, but I checked and double checked with nothing out of place. I ran the mode 8 test again to watch both plugs I had out, and it produces consistent sparks that are bright blue. The only wiring that I haven't double checked is the new wiring to the EM-3. But, there aren't many connections from the EM-3 to the EC-2, and the EM-3 seems to be communicating with the EC-2,as I am not getting the "NO-OP" that I have heard others talk about. I really have not messed with the EM-3 much so far though, because I've first been trying to get the engine started. Right now, I'm recharging the battery. Steve Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > Steve, > > My CAS was always wired correctly also. My coils \ plugs fired in test > mode but not during cranking. Are you having problems with one plugs > during cranking are all plugs? > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > On Behalf Of Steve Brooks > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:11 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start > after engine replacement > > I am running an 89-91 13B engine. Both engines were JDM engines, so I > assume that the CAS is the correct one. I had about 60 flight hours > on the origianl engine, and the new CAS is identical to the old one, > so I think it is correct. > > I did have the controller upgraded for the EC-3, but I beleive that > Tracy tested it also. I don't have anything in between the CAS and > EC-2, it is just wired per the EC-2 manual. > > Steve > > Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > >> >> >> Steve, >> >> You mention you changed CAS with the new engine and then replaced it >> with you old CAS. Three questions. >> >> Did you have any kind of external circuit between the original CAS >> and >> > > >> the EC2? Diode matrix etc. >> >> Did your EC2 go back to Tracy for upgrades between last time it was >> running and the new engine \ CAS. >> >> Are you sure you have he correct CAS for your engine \ EC2 version. >> >> >> I had a problem with upgrades \ CAS but it was on a renesis. Very >> similar to what your describing. >> >> Before first start I installed the diode matrix what was being tested >> and used by some folks. Engine started fine. >> I sent my EC2 back to Tracy for upgrades and I believe he put the >> > "fix" > >> on the EC2 during upgrades. When I reinstalled the EM2 it would not >> start. I ended up removing the external diodes and the engine started >> right up. Problem solved...sort of. >> I then started having the high rpm cutout problem because of high CAS >> voltage. But first I let one sparkplug fall off the engine during >> testing and it smoked the EC2. So back to Tracy it went. I ended up >> installing a different resistor \ zener diode circuit that Dennis H >> and Mark S are using to control the voltage at high rpms. Tracy was >> at >> > > >> a loss as to why I needed the external circuit with the mod's he has >> made to my EC2. >> >> Bobby Hughes >> RV10, Gen 1 (low oil pressure) Super Renesis ...err >> 25 hrs in Phase 1, 68 hrs total engine time. >> >> >> >> >> >> I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master >> switch on, it is 12.5 VDC. While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2 >> VDC. I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts >> on that. >> >> I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was >> surprised to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 volts. >> > > >> It has a rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the >> aircraft, so perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering >> the coils, injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did >> not >> > > >> have the fuel pump turned on. >> >> I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is >> really what I intended with the emergency power bypass. >> >> The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure >> the actual RPM, that I can think of. I did watch the EM-3 during >> cranking, but I did not see any RPM indication on the display. It >> stayed at zero the whole time, but that may be normal. I don't know. >> >> Steve >> >> Ed Anderson wrote: >> >> >>> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't >>> think >>> >>> >> >> >>> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if >>> interconnected >>> >>> >> - it >> >> >>> may. However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or dropping >>> >>> >> too >> >> >>> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the >>> required 150 rpm. However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would >>> even get the first spark. >>> >>> Just my 0.02 >>> >>> Ed Anderson >>> >>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>> >>> Matthews, NC >>> >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.andersonee.com >>> >>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>> >>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> >>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>> >>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start >>> after engine replacement >>> >>> Ed, >>> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing. The >>> battery >>> >>> >> >> >>> is about two years old. It is an Odyssey PC680. I have two >>> batteries, one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine >>> stuff, >>> >>> >> >> >>> and the other one is in the nose an runs the avionics. I have >>> pretty >>> > > >>> heavy cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I >>> recall, and they are not very long. Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked >>> to >>> > > >>> the started, and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine >>> >>> >> block. >> >> >>> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking, I also >>> have >>> >>> >> >> >>> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical >>> buss >>> >>> >> >> >>> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I >>> could >>> >>> >> >> >>> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the >>> >>> >> front. >> >> >>> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet. I >>> will see if it shows the RPM during cranking. I'm not sure if it >>> does >>> >>> >> or not. >> >> >>> Steve >>> >>> Ed Anderson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Steve, where is your battery located? Engine compartment or nose?? >>>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current. New >>>> engine >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> may >>> >>> >>> >>>> have higher compression and may take more juice than previous >>>> engine to turn it over fast enough. The fact that your old engine >>>> was also hard to start makes me wonder. >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> Ed Anderson >>>> >>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>>> >>>> Matthews, NC >>>> >>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>>> >>>> http://www.andersonee.com >>>> >>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>>> >>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> >>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>>> >>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement >>>> >>>> That's interesting. I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it >>>> is >>>> > > >>>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> Steven W. Boese wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the >>>>> default >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at >>>> RPM's >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> less >>> >>> >>> >>>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8. The >>>> greater >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>> >>>> advance, the weaker the spark. Occasionally there will be a strong >>>> spark, but the timing on these is very retarded. With my EC2's, >>>> the >>>> > > >>>> most consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded >>>> mode >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> 8 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> setting, >>> >>> >>> >>>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order >>>> to >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> make >>> >>> >>> >>>> this change. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve Boese >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> Of >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement >>>>> >>>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, >>>>> and >>>>> > > >>>>> also added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard >>>>> to >>>>> > > >>>>> start, and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, >>>>> which >>>>> > > >>>>> didn't used to be there. >>>>> >>>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the >>>>> connections, >>>>> > > >>>>> I had a neighbor help me do some testing. While the ignition test >>>>> runs fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I >>>>> initially crank the engine, and then stops. Once in a while there >>>>> will be another spark, but not very often. >>>>> >>>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue. I have >>>>> double checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm >>>>> meter to the connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check >>>>> out, yet I get only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark >>>>> plugs with new ones, and whenever I pull one to check it, is is >>>>> wet >>>>> > > >>>>> with fuel, which is no surprise. >>>>> >>>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you >>>>> have any suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Steve Brooks >>>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> signature >>> >>> >>> >>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> signature >>> >>> >>> >>>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>> >>> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >> >> > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html