X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c1) with ESMTP id 3961240 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:19:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 09:22:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F315EE85@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement Thread-Index: Acpghk20iGgzMuWoTQi/P09UfqN0vgAAHh/g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Steve, My CAS was always wired correctly also. My coils \ plugs fired in test mode but not during cranking. Are you having problems with one plugs during cranking are all plugs? Bobby=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve Brooks Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:11 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement I am running an 89-91 13B engine. Both engines were JDM engines, so I assume that the CAS is the correct one. I had about 60 flight hours on the origianl engine, and the new CAS is identical to the old one, so I think it is correct. I did have the controller upgraded for the EC-3, but I beleive that Tracy tested it also. I don't have anything in between the CAS and EC-2, it is just wired per the EC-2 manual. Steve Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > =20 > > Steve, > > You mention you changed CAS with the new engine and then replaced it=20 > with you old CAS. Three questions. > > Did you have any kind of external circuit between the original CAS and > the EC2? Diode matrix etc. > > Did your EC2 go back to Tracy for upgrades between last time it was=20 > running and the new engine \ CAS. > > Are you sure you have he correct CAS for your engine \ EC2 version.=20 > > > I had a problem with upgrades \ CAS but it was on a renesis. Very=20 > similar to what your describing. > > Before first start I installed the diode matrix what was being tested=20 > and used by some folks. Engine started fine. > I sent my EC2 back to Tracy for upgrades and I believe he put the "fix" > on the EC2 during upgrades. When I reinstalled the EM2 it would not=20 > start. I ended up removing the external diodes and the engine started=20 > right up. Problem solved...sort of. > I then started having the high rpm cutout problem because of high CAS=20 > voltage. But first I let one sparkplug fall off the engine during=20 > testing and it smoked the EC2. So back to Tracy it went. I ended up=20 > installing a different resistor \ zener diode circuit that Dennis H=20 > and Mark S are using to control the voltage at high rpms. Tracy was at > a loss as to why I needed the external circuit with the mod's he has=20 > made to my EC2. > > Bobby Hughes > RV10, Gen 1 (low oil pressure) Super Renesis ...err > 25 hrs in Phase 1, 68 hrs total engine time.=20 > > > > > > I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master=20 > switch on, it is 12.5 VDC. While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2=20 > VDC. I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts=20 > on that. > > I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was=20 > surprised to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 volts. > It has a rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the=20 > aircraft, so perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering=20 > the coils, injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did not > have the fuel pump turned on. > > I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is=20 > really what I intended with the emergency power bypass. > > The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure=20 > the actual RPM, that I can think of. I did watch the EM-3 during=20 > cranking, but I did not see any RPM indication on the display. It=20 > stayed at zero the whole time, but that may be normal. I don't know. > > Steve > > Ed Anderson wrote: > =20 >> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't=20 >> think >> =20 > > =20 >> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if=20 >> interconnected >> =20 > - it > =20 >> may. However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or dropping >> =20 > too > =20 >> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the=20 >> required 150 rpm. However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would=20 >> even get the first spark. >> >> Just my 0.02 >> >> Ed Anderson >> >> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >> >> Matthews, NC >> >> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >> >> http://www.andersonee.com >> >> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >> >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >> >> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start=20 >> after engine replacement >> >> Ed, >> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing. The=20 >> battery >> =20 > > =20 >> is about two years old. It is an Odyssey PC680. I have two=20 >> batteries, one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine=20 >> stuff, >> =20 > > =20 >> and the other one is in the nose an runs the avionics. I have pretty >> heavy cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I=20 >> recall, and they are not very long. Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked to >> the started, and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine >> =20 > block. > =20 >> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking, I also=20 >> have >> =20 > > =20 >> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical=20 >> buss >> =20 > > =20 >> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I=20 >> could >> =20 > > =20 >> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the >> =20 > front. > =20 >> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet. I=20 >> will see if it shows the RPM during cranking. I'm not sure if it=20 >> does >> =20 > or not. > =20 >> Steve >> >> Ed Anderson wrote: >> =20 >> =20 >>> Steve, where is your battery located? Engine compartment or nose?? >>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current. New=20 >>> engine >>> =20 >>> =20 >> may >> =20 >> =20 >>> have higher compression and may take more juice than previous=20 >>> engine to turn it over fast enough. The fact that your old engine=20 >>> was also hard to start makes me wonder. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Ed Anderson >>> >>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >>> >>> Matthews, NC >>> >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com >>> >>> http://www.andersonee.com >>> >>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html >>> >>> http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> >>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW >>> >>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks >>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement >>> >>> That's interesting. I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it is >>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> Steven W. Boese wrote: >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the=20 >>>> default >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at=20 >>> RPM's >>> =20 >>> =20 >> less >> =20 >> =20 >>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8. The=20 >>> greater >>> =20 >>> =20 >> the >> =20 >> =20 >>> advance, the weaker the spark. Occasionally there will be a strong=20 >>> spark, but the timing on these is very retarded. With my EC2's, the >>> most consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded=20 >>> mode >>> =20 > > =20 >>> 8 >>> =20 >>> =20 >> setting, >> =20 >> =20 >>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order=20 >>> to >>> =20 >>> =20 >> make >> =20 >> =20 >>> this change. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> Steve Boese >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 >>>> Behalf >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >> Of >> =20 >> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com] >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement >>>> >>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, and >>>> also added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard to >>>> start, and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, which >>>> didn't used to be there. >>>> >>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the connections, >>>> I had a neighbor help me do some testing. While the ignition test=20 >>>> runs fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I=20 >>>> initially crank the engine, and then stops. Once in a while there=20 >>>> will be another spark, but not very often. >>>> >>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue. I have=20 >>>> double checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm=20 >>>> meter to the connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check=20 >>>> out, yet I get only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark=20 >>>> plugs with new ones, and whenever I pull one to check it, is is wet >>>> with fuel, which is no surprise. >>>> >>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you=20 >>>> have any suggestions. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Steve Brooks >>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> =20 >>> =20 >> signature >> =20 >> =20 >>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> =20 >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> =20 >>> =20 >> signature >> =20 >> =20 >>> database 3267 (20080714) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> =20 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: >>> =20 >>> =20 >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> =20 >> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus=20 >> signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> =20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > =20 >> =20 >> =20 > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html