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Message-ID: <4AF6DF70.1090909@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:10:40 -0500
From: Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start after
 engine replacement
References: <list-3961228@logan.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-3961228@logan.com>
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I am running an 89-91 13B engine.  Both engines were JDM engines, so I 
assume that the CAS is the correct one.  I had about 60 flight hours on 
the origianl engine, and the new CAS is identical to the old one, so I 
think it is correct.

I did have the controller upgraded for the EC-3, but I beleive that 
Tracy tested it also.  I don't have anything in between the CAS and 
EC-2, it is just wired per the EC-2 manual.

Steve

Bobby J. Hughes wrote:
>  
>
> Steve,
>
> You mention you changed CAS with the new engine and then replaced it
> with you old CAS. Three questions.
>
> Did you have any kind of external circuit between the original CAS and
> the EC2?  Diode matrix etc.
>
> Did your EC2 go back to Tracy for upgrades between last time it was
> running and the new engine \ CAS.
>
> Are you sure you have he correct CAS for your engine \ EC2 version. 
>
>
> I had a problem with upgrades \ CAS but it was on a renesis. Very
> similar to what your describing. 
>
> Before first start I installed the diode matrix what was being tested
> and used by some folks. Engine started fine. 
> I sent my EC2 back to Tracy for upgrades and I believe he put the "fix"
> on the EC2 during upgrades. When I reinstalled the EM2 it would not
> start. I ended up removing the external diodes and the engine started
> right up. Problem solved...sort of. 
> I then started having the high rpm cutout problem because of high CAS
> voltage. But first I let one sparkplug fall off the engine during
> testing and it smoked the EC2. So back to Tracy it went. I ended up
> installing a different resistor \ zener diode circuit that Dennis H and
> Mark S are using to control the voltage at high rpms. Tracy was at a
> loss as to why I needed the external circuit with the mod's he has made
> to my EC2. 
>
> Bobby Hughes
> RV10, Gen 1 (low oil pressure) Super Renesis ...err
> 25 hrs in Phase 1,  68 hrs total engine time. 
>
>
>
>
>
> I measured the voltage on the engine power buss, and with the master
> switch on, it is 12.5 VDC.  While cranking the voltage drops to 10.2
> VDC.  I'm not sure what is normal, so I'm interested in any thoughts on
> that.
>
> I switched the engine bus over to the front battery, and I was surprised
> to see that while cranking the voltage dropped to 9.5 volts.  It has a
> rather long wire running from the front to the rear of the aircraft, so
> perhaps I am dropping some voltage since it is powering the coils,
> injectors, fuel pump, etc., though for this test, I did not have the
> fuel pump turned on.
>
> I know that it does maintain the engine already running, which is really
> what I intended with the emergency power bypass.
>
> The cranking RPM appears to be normal, but I have no way to measure the
> actual RPM, that I can think of.  I did watch the EM-3 during cranking,
> but I did not see any RPM indication on the display.  It stayed at zero
> the whole time, but that may be normal.  I don't know.
>
> Steve
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>   
>> Ok, with a separate battery powering the EC2/3 then you wouldn't think
>>     
>
>   
>> cranking load shouldn't drop that source voltage but if interconnected
>>     
> - it
>   
>> may.   However, if the battery cranking the engine is low or dropping
>>     
> too
>   
>> much voltage, your engine may not be making the two revs at the 
>> required 150 rpm.  However, in that case, I wouldn't think you would 
>> even get the first spark.
>>
>> Just my 0.02
>>
>> Ed Anderson
>>
>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>> Matthews, NC
>>
>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>
>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>
>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>
>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>
>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks
>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 7:35 AM
>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Location[FlyRotary] Re: No start 
>> after engine replacement
>>
>> Ed,
>> That sounds like a good explanation for what I am seeing.  The battery
>>     
>
>   
>> is about two years old.  It is an Odyssey PC680.  I have two 
>> batteries, one sits on the rear spar and runs all of the engine stuff,
>>     
>
>   
>> and the other one is in the nose an runs the avionics.  I have pretty 
>> heavy cables running from the battery to the engine, 0 gauge as I 
>> recall, and they are not very long.  Maybe 5 ft for the one hooked to 
>> the started, and 3 ft for the one ground connected to the engine
>>     
> block.
>   
>> I will check the voltage as you suggested while cranking,  I also have
>>     
>
>   
>> an emergency bypass switch where I cant power the engine critical buss
>>     
>
>   
>> from the front battery, so that would also be a quick test, as I could
>>     
>
>   
>> crank from the rear battery and power the EC-2 and coils from the
>>     
> front.
>   
>> I just installed the EC-3, so I'm not too familiar with it yet.  I 
>> will see if it shows the RPM during cranking.  I'm not sure if it does
>>     
> or not.
>   
>> Steve
>>
>> Ed Anderson wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> Steve, where is your battery located?  Engine compartment or nose??
>>> Long leads can drop a lot of voltage under cranking current.  New 
>>> engine
>>>     
>>>       
>> may
>>   
>>     
>>> have  higher compression and  may take more juice than previous 
>>> engine to turn it over fast enough.  The fact that your old engine 
>>> was also hard to start makes me wonder.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> Ed Anderson
>>>
>>> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>>
>>> Matthews, NC
>>>
>>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>>>
>>> http://www.andersonee.com
>>>
>>> http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
>>>
>>> http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>
>>> http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
>>>
>>> http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
>>> On Behalf Of Steve Brooks
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 4:46 PM
>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No start after engine replacement
>>>
>>> That's interesting.  I had not made any changes to mode 8, but it is 
>>> certainly easy enough to reset it to default.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Steven W. Boese wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Steve,
>>>>
>>>> It might be useful to reset the EC2 timing mode 8 setting to the 
>>>> default
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> setting. My EC2's do not produce consistent or strong sparks at RPM's
>>>     
>>>       
>> less
>>   
>>     
>>> than about 1200 if the EC2 timing is advanced using mode 8.  The 
>>> greater
>>>     
>>>       
>> the
>>   
>>     
>>> advance, the weaker the spark.  Occasionally there will be a strong 
>>> spark, but the timing on these is very retarded.  With my EC2's, the 
>>> most consistent low RPM sparks are obtained at the most retarded mode
>>>       
>
>   
>>> 8
>>>     
>>>       
>> setting,
>>   
>>     
>>> but the EC2 must be receiving CAS signals (engine running) in order 
>>> to
>>>     
>>>       
>> make
>>   
>>     
>>> this change.
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Steve Boese
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>>       
>>>>         
>> Of
>>   
>>     
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> Steve Brooks [cozy4pilot@gmail.com]
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 1:09 PM
>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] No start after engine replacement
>>>>
>>>> I replaced my original engine with another newly rebuilt block, and 
>>>> also added the EM-3 to the installation. The old engine was hard to 
>>>> start, and was also making a ticking noise when it did start, which 
>>>> didn't used to be there.
>>>>
>>>> After several failed attempts, and double checking the connections, 
>>>> I had a neighbor help me do some testing.  While the ignition test 
>>>> runs fine, when checking one of the plugs, it sparks when I 
>>>> initially crank the engine, and then stops.  Once in a while there 
>>>> will be another spark, but not very often.
>>>>
>>>> I reinstalled the original CAS and have the same issue.  I have 
>>>> double checked the CAS connections and checked them with an ohm 
>>>> meter to the connector on the EC-2 also. Everything seems to check 
>>>> out, yet I get only that initial spark. I have replaced the spark 
>>>> plugs with new ones, and whenever I pull one to check it, is is wet 
>>>> with fuel, which is no surprise.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering if anyone has seen this type of problem, or if you 
>>>> have any suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Steve Brooks
>>>> Cozy MKIV 13B turbo
>>>>
>>>> --
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