X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c1) with ESMTP id 3951433 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:34:00 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B591173895 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:33:24 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 74A9ABEC009 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 04:33:22 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <6A2FEFB9DE2E43DCB621D77DEEEF696F@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PRIVATE - TES O-Ring Dimensions Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:33:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01CA5F74.35869D20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091106-2, 11/06/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CA5F74.35869D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark,=20 I don't think there would be much difference, for fitment, between .190 = and .210 anyway, about half a millimeter, but it's good to keep things ( = sizes) straight for those wanting to use them - especially when Kelly = went to so much trouble to confirm them. What method did you use to protect the bearing surface- taped-up the = bearing surface or grease? I assume you had to soak the rotors for a = while? George ( down under) George, Stretching on boards would only make them bigger. One dim. was = already 1/4" too big to start with. It is nearly impossible to shrink = them without cutting and splicing. Anyway, I got it confirmed that the = correct dia is 11.190 (I used 11.210" on my first engine and they fit = great). Now to get my order placed and move on. BTW.. regarding cleaning rotors, someone asked if oven cleaner would = work. Yes it does! I tried it and it worked great! I used two = different brands (with different chemical compounds) and both worked = like a champ. It took a few applications to get through the really = thick stuff, and I suggest you protect the bearings, but this worked = better than using Coastal Power Clean as I did when cleaning up my first = engine. Using oven cleaner, I got all three rotors cleaned up in a = couple of hours time. Just don't breath the fumes, get it on your = skin, or in your eyes! Mark S. =20 On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:01 AM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, I believe Pl was advised of these proper measurements, but ignored = them. It may be he refused to believe that he was wrong. Sure as hell = beats stretching them on a board, the right size pops directly into = place. The beauty of fractional fittings. George (down under) George,=20 My research and measurments confirm these dimensions. Thanks for = the info. Mark =20 On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, Kelly Troyer, sent some end housings to Jeff Chrysler of = Creavey, to make absolutely sure of sizing. Jeff promised me that he = would hold a record of the proper size for all Mazda Rotary requests. The sizes ID by Jeff where as you have stated.for the oil = seals - and Coolant seals are PFA-Sil 0.093 section 11.190 inch ID PFA-Sil 0.093 section 8.950 inch ID HTH George (down under) Paul,=20 I'm sending this to you "private" so as not to confuse = everyone with a bunch of dimensions that may, or may not, turn out to be = correct. I spoke with Jeff today thinking that he would be able to = verify the correct sizes and he doesn't have those dimensions. Looking through my archives, I found an old email stating that = I initially used the 11.340" dimension, but it turned out to be too = large and I had to send it back to have it re-sized to 11.230" which = worked perfectly (didn't require stretching) and laid in the groove very = nicely. I found my receipt from Creavy Seal Co. Unfortunately, it is = only for one coolant seal, and both oil seals. =20 As for the outer coolant seal=85 Originally I ordered a set of = SIL .093 =96 11.340 ID o-rings. These proved to be too big and I had to = send them back. Note that 11.340 minus .090 is 11.230=85 the correct = size. I had given them a size based on CL, not ID. So, be sure = you=92re on the same page when ordering these things. After a few = emails to Jeff Chrysler, we got it right on the re-order with these = numbers=85 SIL .093 =96 11.230. These fit perfectly. I can find no = records for what I ordered on the inner coolant seals. Here is an email = I sent to Jeff Chrysler at Creavy Seal after fit-checking the new outer = coolant o-rings. Attn: Jeff Chrysler Hi Jeff, The reworked TES o-rings fit perfect. Final dimension for the = outer coolant o-rings is .093 x 11.230" ID. Thank you so much for all = your help. I can start putting my engine back together now. I have = passed this information along to Paul Lamar as well. This size should = work for all 13B and 20B engines, but you may want to verify size before = using it for the new Renesis engines. =20 Thanks again for your assistance, Mark Steitle The information for the two oil seals are SIL .093 =96 4.680 = ID, and SIL .118 =96 4.330 ID. Using your example of how to measure and calculate the coolant = o-ring dimensions, I ran the numbers and came up with 11.182" for the = outer coolant o-ring. Based on this info, I order based on the 11.230" = dimension for the outer o-ring. I'll let you know how it works out. All of the other dims agree with my numbers. Thanks, Mark =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CA5F74.35869D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
I don't think there would be much = difference, for=20 fitment, between .190 and .210 anyway, about half a millimeter, but = it's=20 good to keep things ( sizes) straight for those wanting to use them - = especially=20 when Kelly went to so much trouble to confirm = them.
 
What method did you use to protect the = bearing=20 surface- taped-up the bearing surface or grease? I assume you had to = soak the=20 rotors for a while?
George ( down under)

George,
 
Stretching on boards would only make them bigger.  One=20 dim. was already 1/4" too big to start with.  It is nearly=20 impossible to shrink them without cutting and splicing.  Anyway, = I got it=20 confirmed that the correct dia is 11.190 (I used 11.210" on my = first=20 engine and they fit great).  Now to get my order placed and move=20 on.
 
BTW.. regarding cleaning rotors, someone asked if oven cleaner = would=20 work.  Yes it does!  I tried it and it worked = great!  I=20 used two different brands (with different chemical compounds) and both = worked=20 like a champ.  It took a few applications to get through the = really thick=20 stuff, and I suggest you protect the bearings, but this worked better = than=20 using Coastal Power Clean as I did when cleaning up my first = engine. =20 Using oven cleaner, I got all three rotors cleaned up in a couple of = hours=20 time.   Just don't breath the fumes, get it on your skin, or = in your=20 eyes!
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:01 AM, George = Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> = wrote:
Mark,
I believe Pl was advised of these = proper=20 measurements, but ignored them. It may be he refused to believe that = he was=20 wrong. Sure as hell beats stretching them on a board, the right size = pops=20 directly into place. The beauty of fractional fittings.
George (down = under)
George,
 
My research and measurments confirm these dimensions.  = Thanks=20 for the info.
 
Mark 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, George = Lendich=20 <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
 
 Mark,
Kelly Troyer, sent some end = housings to=20 Jeff Chrysler of Creavey, to make absolutely sure of sizing. = Jeff=20 promised me that he would hold a record of the proper size for = all=20 Mazda Rotary requests.
 
The sizes ID by Jeff where as = you have=20 stated.for the oil seals - and  Coolant seals = are
PFA-Sil   0.093 = section=20 11.190  inch ID
PFA-Sil   0.093=20 section   8.950 inch ID
HTH
George (down under)
 
 
Paul,
 
I'm sending this to you "private" so as not to confuse = everyone=20 with a bunch of dimensions that may, or may not, turn out to = be=20 correct.  I spoke with Jeff today thinking that he would = be able=20 to verify the correct sizes and he doesn't have those=20 dimensions.
 
Looking through my archives, I found an old email stating = that I=20 initially used the 11.340" dimension, but it turned out to be = too=20 large and I had to send it back to have it re-sized to = 11.230"=20 which worked perfectly (didn't require stretching) = and laid in=20 the groove very nicely.
 
<snip>

I found my receipt from = Creavy=20 Seal Co.  Unfortunately, it is only for one coolant seal, = and=20 both oil seals. 

 

As for the outer = coolant seal=85=20 Originally I ordered a set of SIL .093 =96 11.340 ID = o-rings. =20 These proved to be too big and I had to send them back.  = Note=20 that 11.340 minus .090 is 11.230=85 the correct size.  I = had given=20 them a size based on CL, not ID.  So, be sure you=92re on = the same=20 page when ordering these things.  After a few emails to = Jeff=20 Chrysler, we got it right on the re-order with these = numbers=85 SIL=20 .093 =96 11.230. These fit perfectly.  I can find no = records=20 for what I ordered on the inner coolant seals.  Here is = an email=20 I sent to Jeff Chrysler at Creavy Seal after fit-checking the = new=20 outer coolant o-rings.

 

Attn:  = Jeff=20 Chrysler

 

Hi = Jeff,

The reworked = TES o-rings=20 fit perfect.  Final dimension for the outer coolant = o-rings is=20 .093 x 11.230" ID.  Thank you so much for all your = help.  I=20 can start putting my engine back together now.  I have = passed=20 this information along to Paul Lamar as well.  This size = should=20 work for all 13B and 20B engines, but you may want to verify = size=20 before using it for the new Renesis engines. 

 

Thanks again = for your=20 assistance,

Mark = Steitle

 

The information for the = two oil=20 seals are SIL .093 =96 4.680 ID, and SIL .118 =96 4.330 = ID.

<snip>

 
Using your example of how to measure and = calculate the=20 coolant o-ring dimensions, I ran the numbers and came up with = 11.182"=20 for the outer coolant o-ring.  Based on this info, I = order based=20 on the 11.230" dimension for the outer o-ring.  I'll let = you know=20 how it works out.
 
All of the other dims agree with my numbers.
 
Thanks,
=
Mark   


------=_NextPart_000_0009_01CA5F74.35869D20--