X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3905255 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:46:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D77B173A94 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:46:05 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E272BEC02C for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:45:00 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <172D11D31A6A44AAAC80EECE3FB52579@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Cooling report - was Tracy RV8 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:45:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01CA5988.B4FE27E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091029-0, 10/29/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CA5988.B4FE27E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al,=20 I believe Rino said he had a fan on the oil cooler, which I feel would = be restrictive in aviation use, from what I've heard. Might be good for = taxiing etc. I picked up this rule of thumb somewhere that 600 cu" is good to 200 = + Hp which gives 3cu" per HP for the radiator for the rotary engine - so = his 643 cu" is probably a little too large. Might be good for extreme = conditions. I've also heard the Rotary oil rad is good for 200+ hp - so that may = imply a rule of thumb of ( 200 / 157 cu" ) .785 cu " per hp, for the = rotary. Works for me. George ( down under) Rino; It seems very peculiar that you get better oil cooling with the stock = RX7 oil cooler than the Griffin with more than twice the core volume. = Given the low exit air temp with the Griffin cooler, one would conclude = something wrong on the oil side - flow was seriously limited; air = trapped in the cooler, maybe very poor flow distribution; something. = What is the core configuration of the Griffin - fin density, tube = configuration? Al =20 Tracy, The following info. might be of interest to you, it has to do with my = latest cooling system experience. I ordered 2 Griffin radiators and installed that, had to modify the = air ducts A water radiator: no: GRI-2-58185-X CROSSFLOW - DUAL ROW 1-1/4" tubes core 18" X 13" X 2.75" 234 sq. in. 643 cu. in. A custom made oil radiator no: CX-27256-01 core 18" X 7.5" X 2.75" 135 sq. in. 371 cu. in. added a spall 10" fan (15 amp.) to the oil radiator Still not enough cooling, could not climb at full power for more than = a few minutes before the oil reached 220 deg. F. I had nore than eough water cooling, so I Built a oil/water heat = exchanger and added that in series with the Griffin oil rad. That did not work too well, not enough cooling. Removed the Griffin oil rad. and the fan. Replaced it with the original RX7 oil radiator core 17.5" X 4.5" X 2" 78 sq. in. 157 cu. in.=20 Kept the oil/water heat exchanger in series with the oil rad. Air flow; Water rad air in 84 sq. in. air out 180 sq. in. Oil rad air in 40 sq. in. air out 54 sq. in. I think this last system works --- finally The outside air temp is presently between 30 and 40 deg. F. so it is = hard for me to tell how it will work in the summer but the indications = are good. I had to plaster the front of the water rad. with duct tape = to raise the engine temp. and block the oil rad. air exit to reduce air = flow. The oil rad. air flow is reduced to 12 sq. in. at the moment and = not much air is flowing through the water rad. I have no water thermostat and no oil thermostat so I have to control = the temp with the air flow. I need to build vanes to control the air flow, that is what I am = working on at the moment. I consider this installation much simpler and easier to maintain. The = reason I figured that the griffin oil cooler was not working properly, = the air flow behind the rad. was not getting higher than abour 85 deg. F = even when the oil was at 220 de. F On the other hand the griffin water = rad. seems to work fine. Now the air flow temp behind both rads. goes = to about 130+ deg. F A photo of the present installation. Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:19 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tracy RV8 Cooler weather is helping now but still a work in progress. I'll = write up a report when the problem is fully solved. Tracy=20 On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:56 PM, wrote: Hi Tracy Are you in a position to give us a further update on the cooling of = the RV8. Thanks Steve Izett Perth Australia=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- The contents of this email are confidential and intended only for = the named recipients of this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in = error, you are hereby notified that any use, reproduction, disclosure or = distribution or the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. = Please notify the sender immediately and then delete/destroy the e-mail = and any printed copies. All liability for viruses is excluded to the = fullest extent of the law. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01CA5988.B4FE27E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 Al,
I believe Rino said he had a fan on = the oil=20 cooler, which I feel would be restrictive in aviation use, from what = I've=20 heard. Might be good for taxiing etc.
 
I picked up this rule of thumb = somewhere =20 that 600 cu" is good to 200 + Hp which gives 3cu" per HP for the = radiator for=20 the rotary engine - so his 643 cu" is probably a little too large. = Might be=20 good for extreme conditions.
 
I've also heard the Rotary oil = rad is good=20 for 200+ hp - so that may imply a rule of thumb of  ( 200 / 157=20 cu" ) .785 cu " per hp, for the rotary.
Works for me.
George ( down under)
 
 
Rino;

It seems = very=20 peculiar that you get better oil cooling with the stock RX7 oil cooler = than=20 the Griffin with = more than=20 twice the core volume. Given the low exit air temp with the=20 Griffin cooler, = one would=20 conclude something wrong on the oil side - flow was seriously limited; = air=20 trapped in the cooler, maybe very poor flow distribution; = something. =20 What is the core configuration of the Griffin =96 fin = density,=20 tube configuration?

 

Al=20  

 

Tracy,

 

The following info. = might be of=20 interest to you, it has to do with my latest cooling system=20 experience.

 

I=20 ordered 2 Griffin radiators = and=20 installed that, had to modify the air ducts

A water=20 radiator: no: GRI-2-58185-X

CROSSFLOW = - DUAL=20 ROW  1-1/4" tubes

core=20 18" X 13" X 2.75"    234 sq. = in.     643=20 cu. in.

 

A=20 custom made oil radiator no: CX-27256-01

core=20 18" X 7.5" X 2.75"  135 sq. in.     371 cu.=20 in.

added a=20 spall 10" fan (15 amp.) to the oil radiator

 

Still=20 not enough cooling, could not climb at full power for more than a few = minutes=20 before the oil reached 220 deg. F.

I had nore than eough = water=20 cooling, so I Built a = oil/water=20 heat exchanger and added that in series with the=20 Griffin oil=20 rad.

That=20 did not work too well, not enough cooling.

Removed=20 the Griffin oil rad. = and the=20 fan.

Replaced = it with the=20 original RX7 oil radiator

core=20 17.5" X 4.5" X 2"      78 sq.=20 in.      157 cu. in.

Kept=20 the oil/water heat exchanger in series with the oil=20 rad.

 

Air=20 flow;

Water=20 rad air in 84 sq. in.      air out 180 = sq.=20 in.

Oil rad=20 air in 40 sq. in.     air out 54 sq.=20 in.

 

I think=20 this last system works --- finally

 

The=20 outside air temp is presently between 30 and 40 deg. F. so it is hard = for me=20 to tell how it will work in the summer but the indications are=20 good.   I had to plaster the front of the water rad. with = duct tape=20 to raise the engine temp. and block the oil rad. air exit to reduce = air=20 flow.  The oil rad. air flow is reduced to 12 sq. in. at the = moment and=20 not much air is flowing through the water rad.

 

I have=20 no water thermostat and no oil thermostat so I have to control the = temp with=20 the air flow.

I need=20 to build vanes to control the air flow, that is what I am working on = at the=20 moment.

 

I=20 consider this installation much simpler and easier to maintain.  = The=20 reason I figured that the griffin oil cooler was not working properly, = the air=20 flow behind the rad. was not getting higher than abour 85 deg. F = even=20 when the oil was at 220 de. F  On the other hand the griffin = water rad.=20 seems to work fine.  Now the air flow temp behind both rads. goes = to=20 about 130+ deg. F

 

A photo of the=20 present installation.

 

Rino=20 Lacombe

Renesis powered Glass=20 Goose

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Tracy=20 Crook

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, October 29,=20 2009 1:19=20 AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Tracy=20 RV8

 

Cooler weather=20 is helping now but still a work in progress.  I'll write up a = report=20 when the problem is fully solved.

Tracy

On Wed, Oct = 28, 2009 at=20 6:56 PM, <stevei@carey.asn.au> = wrote:

Hi=20 Tracy

Are you in a position to give us a further update on = the=20 cooling of the RV8.


Thanks

Steve=20 Izett
Perth=20 Australia=20

The=20 contents of this email are confidential and intended only for the = named=20 recipients of this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in = error, you=20 are hereby notified that any use, reproduction, disclosure or = distribution=20 or the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. Please = notify the=20 sender immediately and then delete/destroy the e-mail and any = printed=20 copies. All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent = of the=20 law.

 

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