X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f192.google.com ([209.85.221.192] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3904075 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:11:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.192; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk30 with SMTP id 30so1051091qyk.7 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=SaV+JrfXm+T5m9cA6RHiqWXp5SN/okM6aBAtEBqBuUQ=; b=oU+XW6DjQ3l4Y2f0U6hGLNyJ/7H6zMu7JzcGziDilewxgjrXXSNrqA8uZKpzPzYVP5 1UEqtgNqoXpi02mBHYl7xhCoRIIsJ87OGFqqebgY7Yc57oXYmgwzP4U56Ev6AFqlfKkd CqGldvA7BHEMo7BOyxYfB4HDDZFD23aDIvAic= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=GMPnsNlS+yhzJFUtnb+RLcP9WQq/vTPtgi3gZ764/VE9kVPL4xjHHCFbp4vyZxgs++ r/HkrbJCeIed8XXwlNyaZmF+5gZbiiThY8Y7D9WhNLztwlyBn6tE65vB9n7hMpSs6Ose 4ndWC9uwI9Ut7e7DO4TxEI/SVIjmOhMEyMa7A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.86.220 with SMTP id t28mr25790qal.43.1256821860260; Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:11:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:11:00 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c4d90330f1b82357 Message-ID: <1b4b137c0910290611n23ad6763j6f0fff8203858c1b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: MCT values in the 0-63 area of the EC-2 From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00c09f89934586de72047712a4d9 --00c09f89934586de72047712a4d9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah. I think I see the problem. When the EC2/3 went to the 3 table scheme (RPM on the lowest table from 0 - 31) the address no longer always equated to manifold pressure. The EM2/3 spec on line 2 then changed to readout RPM rather than manifold pressure. Line 4 is still the actual MP that the engine is operating at. Line 2 says 0 because I assume the engine is not running when you looked at it so that would be zero RPM not zero manifold pressure. Did you get an updated EM2 guide when you updated your EM2? If not I can email it to you. Tracy On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Data from the editing area of the EM-2 (the top two lines) when on the > MAP table screen. > > > > Address Mixture correction Manifold Pressure (actually first item on > second line on the screen.) > > 0 -127 0 > > 1 -127 0 shouldn=92t t= hese > be manifold pressure or > > 2 +0 0 RPMs??? > > 3 +0 0 > > 4 +0 0 > > 5 +0 0 > > 6 +0 0 > > Etc=85. thru address 63 Outer Space!? > > > > 64 +0 10.0 > > 65 +0 10.5 > > 66 +0 11.0 > > 67 +0 11.5 > > Etc=85.thru address 127 continues in .5 increments > > > > Bill B > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Tracy Crook > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:57 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: MCT values in the 0-63 area of the EC-2 > > Zero manifold pressure? You could only have that if you were in outer > space. Obviously there is a misunderstanding here but I don't know on wh= ich > end it is. > > Let me try this: The two items associated with each address are these - > Address is associated with a particular manifold pressure (or rpm if less > than 2500 AND less than the threshold pressure which is adjustable, not > fixed at 13"). The other item is the DATA in that address which is the > correction factor applied at the manifold pressure (or rpm) associated wi= th > that address. Neither of these 2 items will look remotely like the > numerical value of the actual manifold pressure. For instance, the bott= om > of the mid-range rpm table (address 32) represents a manifold pressure of > about 8" Hg which is about the minimum that any engine will run at under > normal conditions. > > Tracy > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > Tracy, > > I think I didn=92t explain what I am seeing properly. > > The addresses 0-63 should have associated with them two items. (I think) > > The manifold pressure that is associated with each address and the mixtu= re > correction that is associated with that address and manifold pressure. > > My table for addresses 0-63 ALL have a manifold pressure of ZERO associat= ed > with them. The mixture correction for each address varies, mostly zero, = but > not all. > > It is the manifold pressures that are all zero! Shouldn=92t they have ei= ther > manifold pressures or perhaps RPMs listed?? > > On the addresses 64-127, the manifold pressures start at 10.0 and increas= e > by .5 with each additional address. Not so with the earlier addresses. = I > think this is not correct, but I don=92t think there is any way that I ca= n > affect the manifold pressure indications. > > > > Since the EC-2 can flip back and forth between the high and low addresses > at the same manifold pressures but different rpms, several folks have > reported having to ensure that the corrections were similar at the two > locations. I intended to verify that they were similar, but since I don= =92t > have the manifold pressures in the table at the low addresses, I don=92t = know > how I would compare them. But more than that, I don=92t understand how t= he > EC-2 could know what manifold pressure the lower address corresponds to a= nd > therefore which correction it should apply. > > Perhaps it only looks for +/- 13 inches to go to addresses above or below > 31? But then, wouldn=92t it need an RPM in each address to determine the > correction??? > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Tracy Crook > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:09 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: MCT values in the 0-63 area of the EC-2 > > The default values in the table are supposed to be all zeros. There is a > conceptual misunderstanding about these values in your question. It is n= ot > the Data that corresponds to the manifold pressure, it is the address. T= he > data is a correction value for the corresponding manifold pressure. The > values can be from -127 to + 127 with negative values causing the mixtur= e > to be adjusted leaner and positive values richer. > > Does that help? > > Tracy > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > Tracy is back! What about this question, Tracy? > > > > The below from a previous email=85 > > > > Now I have more questions. I went over and copied down the information i= n > my MAP table today. I was surprised to learn that the manifold pressures > for all addresses from 0 to 63 were set to Zero. I expected to find actu= al > manifold pressures in there. Starting with addresses 64 through 127 the > manifold pressures increase from 10.0 at address 64 in 0.5 inch increment= s > all the way to 41.8 inches at address 127. My engine is naturally > aspirated, so the manifold pressures above about 30 or 31 will never be > used. I understand that the 0 to 31 addresses are used when the RPM is > below 2500 and the manifold pressure is below 13 inches, and that the > addresses from 32 to 63 are used when the RPM is between 2500 and 3800 an= d > the manifold pressure is above 13 inches. But I still don=92t understand= how > the controller would know which address to use with no manifold pressures > entered in the table. Tracy is this is OK? Will these pressures be adde= d > when the engine is ran?? > > > > Bill B > > > > > --00c09f89934586de72047712a4d9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah.=A0 I think I see the problem.

=A0 When the EC2/3 went to the 3 t= able scheme (RPM on the lowest table from 0 - 31) the address no longer alw= ays equated to manifold pressure.=A0 The EM2/3 spec on line 2 then changed = to readout RPM rather than manifold pressure.=A0 Line 4 is still the actual= MP that the engine is operating at.=A0 Line 2 says 0 because I assume the = engine is not running when you looked at it so that would be zero RPM not z= ero manifold pressure.

Did you get an updated EM2 guide when you updated your EM2?=A0 If not I= can email it to you.

Tracy

On Thu= , Oct 29, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> w= rote:

Data from the editing area of the EM-2 (the top two = lines) when on the MAP table screen.

=A0

Address=A0=A0=A0 Mixture correction=A0=A0 Manifold Pressure (actually first item on second line on the screen.)<= /p>

0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 -127=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 0

1=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 -127=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 shouldn=92t these be manifold pressure or

2=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A00=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 RPMs???

3=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 0

4=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 0

5=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0+0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 0

6=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 0

Etc=85. =A0thru address 63=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Outer Space!?

=A0

64=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 10.0

65=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 10.5

66=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 11.0

67=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 +0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 11.5

Etc=85.thru address 127 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0continues in .5 increments

=A0

Bill B

=A0

=A0

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Wednesday, October 2= 8, 2009 11:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: M= CT values in the 0-63 area of the EC-2

Zero manifold pressure?=A0 You could only have that if you were in outer space.=A0 Obviously there is a misunderstanding here but I don't know on which en= d it is.

Let me try this:=A0 The two items associated with each address are these - Address is associated with a particular manifold pressure (or rpm if less t= han 2500 AND less than the threshold pressure which is adjustable, not fixed at 13").=A0 The other item is the DATA in that address which is the correction factor applied at the manifold pressure (or rpm) associated with that address.=A0 Neither of these 2 items will look remotely like the numerical value of the actual manifold pressure.=A0 For instance,=A0 the bottom of the mid-range rpm table (address 32) represents a manifold pressu= re of about 8" Hg which is about the minimum that any engine will run at under normal conditions.

Tracy

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Bill Bradburry <= ;bbradburry@b= ellsouth.net> wrote:

Tracy,

I think I didn=92t explain what I am seeing properly.

The addresses 0-63 should have associated with them two items. (I think)

=A0The manifold pressure that is associated with each address and the mixture correction th= at is associated with that address and manifold pressure.=A0

My table for addresses 0-63 ALL have a manifold pressure of ZERO associated with them.= =A0 The mixture correction for each address varies, mostly zero, but not all.

It is the manifold pressures that are all zero!=A0 Shouldn=92t they have either manifold pressures or perhaps RPMs listed??

On the addresses 64-127, the manifold pressures start at 10.0 and increase by .5 with each additional address.=A0 Not so with the earlier addresses.=A0 I think this is not correct, but I don=92t think there is any way that I can affect the manifold pressure indications.

=A0

Since the EC-2 can flip back and forth between the high and low addresses at the same manifold pressures but different rpms, several folks have reported having to ensure = that the corrections were similar at the two locations.=A0 I intended to verify that they were similar, but since I don=92t have the manifold pressures in the table at the low addresses, I don=92t know how I would compare them.=A0 But more than that, I don=92t understand how the EC-2 could know what manifold pressure the lower address corresponds to and therefore which correction it should apply.

Perhaps it only looks for +/- 13 inches to go to addresses above or below 31?=A0 But then, wouldn=92t it need an RPM in each address to determine the correction???

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Wednesday, October 2= 8, 2009 11:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: M= CT values in the 0-63 area of the EC-2

The default values in the table are supposed to be all zeros.=A0 There is a conceptual misunderstanding about these values in your question.=A0 It is not the Data that corresponds to the manifold pressure, it is the address.=A0 The data i= s a correction value for the corresponding manifold pressure.=A0 The values can be from -127 to + 127=A0 with negative values causing the mixture to be adjusted leaner and positive values richer.

Does that help?

Tracy

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

=A0Tracy is back!=A0 What about this question, Tracy?

=A0

The below from a previous email=85

=A0

Now I have more questions.=A0 I went over and copied down the information in my MAP table today.=A0 I was surprised to learn that the manifold pressures for all addresses from 0 to 63 were set to Zero.=A0 I expected to find actual manifold pressures in there.=A0 Starting with addresses 64 through 127 the manifold pressures increase from 10.0 at address 64 in 0.5 inch increments = all the way to 41.8 inches at address 127.=A0 My engine is naturally aspirated, so the manifold pressures above about 30 or 31 will never be used.=A0 I understand that the 0 to 31 addresses are used when the RPM is below 2500 a= nd the manifold pressure is below 13 inches, and that the addresses from 32 to= 63 are used when the RPM is between 2500 and 3800 and the manifold pressure is above 13 inches.=A0 But I still don=92t understand how the controller would know which address to use with no manifold pressures entered in the table.=A0 Tracy is this is OK?=A0 Will these pressures be added when the engine is ran??

=A0

Bill B

=A0

=A0


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