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From: "George Lendich" <lendich@aanet.com.au>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-3857359@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Vinyl Ester tanks
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 18:46:54 +1000
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Steve,
Very Interesting indeed, they do say that less corrosive to fuel lines, but 
still it's alcohol based and it's alcohol kills epoxy.
A good test if you can get some Butonal, is to put some hardened resin in a 
jar and let it sit in the Butonal for a long period of time.
George ( down under)

> George,
>
> According to the information I have, butanol is not corrosive due to  its 
> larger hydrocarbon chain.  Check out the following link:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel
>
> I recently spoke with a fellow that is trying to develop a biobutanol 
> factory to produce it from biomass, mostly waste product and not 
> foodstuffs.  He wants me to test his fuel.  Not likely, as flying for  the 
> first time has enough uncertainty without adding unnecessary  variables. 
> But, it does have promise.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Thomas
> _______________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:42 AM, George Lendich wrote:
>
>> Steve doesn't it go Methanol, Ethanol, Butanol in the BTU rating -  isn't 
>> it still a alcohol and isn't alcohol the thing that kills epoxy?
>> George ( down under)
>>
>>> (sorry, but the chart mentioned below is too big.  If you want a  copy, 
>>> let me know and I'll email direct.)
>>>
>>> Yes, but there are many formulations of vinyl ester.  My entire 
>>> airplane is made from vinyl ester, including the wet-wing gas  tanks. 
>>> The formula used from the factory was Derakane 411-45.  I  switched to 
>>> Derakane 411-350 some time later as it was a little  more viscous and 
>>> wetted out better.  It was also easier to get.   However, if you look 
>>> at the attached Derakane Chemical Resistance  Guide, the 411 series is 
>>> not recommended for gasohol  concentrations greater than 10% ethanol. 
>>> Since I cannot do  anything about my tanks at this point, I am forced 
>>> to live with  the limitations of Derakane 411.
>>>
>>> I don't know what the specifications are on the fiberglast resins,  but 
>>> those who use it ought to know.  For me, E85 is clearly not in  the 
>>> cards. Another possible option is butanol.  There are some who  are 
>>> experimenting with butanol as a 100% replacement for 100LL.   It has 
>>> nearly the same octane rating as 100LL, and about 90% of  the total 
>>> energy, per gallon, of gasoline.  Ethanol only has about  60% of the 
>>> energy, per gallon, of gasoline.  And butanol does  require a different 
>>> air-fuel ratio.  It is also not corrosive in  the same way as ethanol.
>>>
>>> So, my concern remains.  It looks like using gasohol with a 10%  lace 
>>> of ethanol will be OK.  More than that, I'll be switching to  100LL.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Thomas
>>> _______________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Lynn Hanover wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or, what are the tanks holding E-85 made out of? About 75% alcohol
>>>> .All of the underground fuel tanks are now Vinyl Ester.
>>>>
>>>> Lynn E. Hanover
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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