X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from relais.videotron.ca ([24.201.245.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3836415 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:13:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.201.245.36; envelope-from=geryvon@videotron.ca MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_R3ykAtyL01Tr1c/9YT1X4w)" Received: from yvon ([66.130.84.106]) by VL-MH-MR001.ip.videotron.ca (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-4.01 (built Aug 3 2007; 32bit)) with SMTP id <0KPG00EC5CWMF180@VL-MH-MR001.ip.videotron.ca> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-id: From: Yvon Cournoyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:12:06 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_R3ykAtyL01Tr1c/9YT1X4w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT New (overhauled) engine purchased from a Mazda dealer. Air time 95 hrs. Ground time about half as much. I fly a 2.105:1 cogbelt PSRU. My aircraft is a Zenair Zenith. Yvon ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade Yvon, Was your 13B freshly overhauled when you began flying and how many hours in the air currently..............Condition of the rotor side seals and their "O" rings plus side plate wear steps are the main controlling factors + the percentage of 2 stroke oil............As the engine rotor side seals, "O" rings and side plates wear then more of the 2 stroke oil will get past them and into the oil sump........... -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from Yvon Cournoyer : -------------- I have been using a ratio of 1:140 for some time and still getting an increase in the oil pan. I do not run above 5500-5600 engine rpm. My engine is a 1986 13B. Yvon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade Just talked to John again. Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel filters (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?). Saw fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started falling. After landing, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them out. That procedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks. After cleaning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, hence the failure to start. He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was super low and that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. After opening them, the engine started immediately. The RPM anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that was back to normal. I'm sure we will hear more later. I'm kind of amazed that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of fuel with no oil added was used. Just random thoughts: I'm thinking I should cut back on the amount of oil I add. I'm still accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz per gallon of gas. Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis. Peripheral exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably overkill. Tracy On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard wrote: So what caused the evergency landing? Dave Leonard On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: Called John to see if I could help. What a saga! Lots of indications that it is clogged fuel system somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred simultaneously that make no sense at all (like a double rpm indication). John says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops with no oil added to gas (forgot). Engine was running normal at shutdown after emergency landing but now won't start. Unfortunately John has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics and has not tried checking for spark while cranking since that is a 2 man job. I forgot to ask if he had tried the backup on EC2 controller but I assume he did. Tracy On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev wrote: Guys, I just got a call from John Slade. He had to do an emergency landing in Graystone 17FL (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, and he needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is 860-271-3941. Please give him a call if you can help in any way. Buly Bulent Aliev -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --Boundary_(ID_R3ykAtyL01Tr1c/9YT1X4w) Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
New (overhauled) engine = purchased from a=20 Mazda dealer. Air time 95 hrs. Ground time about half as much. I fly a = 2.105:1=20 cogbelt PSRU. My aircraft is a Zenair Zenith. Yvon
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Thursday, September 03, = 2009 3:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help = for John=20 Slade

Yvon,
  Was your 13B freshly overhauled when you began flying and = how many=20 hours in
the air currently..............Condition of the rotor side seals = and=20 their "O" rings plus
side plate wear steps are the main controlling factors + the = percentage=20 of 2 stroke
oil............As the engine rotor side seals, "O" rings and side = plates=20 wear then more
of the 2 stroke oil will get past them and into the oil=20 sump...........
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from Yvon Cournoyer <geryvon@videotron.ca>:=20 --------------

I have been using a ratio = of 1:140 for=20 some time and still getting an increase in the oil pan. I do not run = above=20 5500-5600 engine rpm. My engine is a 1986 13B. = Yvon.
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Tracy Crook
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, September = 02, 2009=20 10:04 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Help for=20 John Slade

Just talked to John again.  Engine emergency = caused by=20 clogged fuel filters (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel = tank work=20 of some sort?).   Saw fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and = increased=20 EGTs then rpm started falling.   After landing, John found = the=20 clogged filters & cleaned them out.  That procedure = called for=20 closing a shutoff valve from the tanks.  After cleaning the = filters,=20 he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, hence the failure to = start.  He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was super = low and=20 that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. =   =20 After opening them, the engine started immediately.  =

The RPM=20 anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that = was=20 back to normal.  I'm sure we will hear more later.  I'm = kind of=20 amazed that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons = of fuel=20 with no oil added was used.

Just random thoughts:   = I'm=20 thinking I should cut back on the amount of oil I add.  I'm = still=20 accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz per = gallon of=20 gas.  Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis.  = Peripheral=20 exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is = probably=20 overkill.

Tracy


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David = Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
So what caused the evergency = landing?

Dave=20 Leonard=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy = Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> = wrote:
Called John to see if I could help.  = What a=20 saga!    Lots of indications that it is clogged fuel = system=20 somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred simultaneously = that=20 make no sense at all (like a double rpm = indication).   John=20 says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops = with no oil=20 added to gas (forgot).  Engine was running normal at = shutdown=20 after emergency landing but now won't start.  = Unfortunately John=20 has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector = diagnostics and has not tried checking for spark while = cranking since=20 that is a 2 man job.   I forgot to ask if he had = tried the=20 backup on EC2 controller but I assume he did. 

Tracy=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, = Bulent Aliev=20 <bulent@enginegearonline.com> = wrote:
Guys, I just got a call from John Slade. = He had to=20 do an emergency landing in Graystone 17FL=20 (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start = again, and=20 he needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel = # is=20 860-271-3941. Please give him a call if you can help in any=20 way.
Buly
Bulent=20 = Aliev




--
David=20 Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
=
--Boundary_(ID_R3ykAtyL01Tr1c/9YT1X4w)--