X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3835226 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:06:59 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.104; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-146-126-207.mco.bellsouth.net[72.146.126.207]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20090903190622H0400ibsdde>; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:06:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [72.146.126.207] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:06:24 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA2CA8.1B028BC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcosxcZDBY4gdqsfQZO+0Se+gUAusQAAJ/pQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA2CA8.1B028BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suspect that the proper amount of oil will always result in oil = increasing in the pan. After all, in the car this oil is recycled out of the pan. Does anyone have any good data on how much oil the rotary =93uses=94 = between oil changes? That would give some idea of how much it would take to not = have any oil get into the pan, but I doubt it is a good idea to have all the = oil burn or blow out. Lubrication is the goal. I plan to use 3 oz per 4 gal. 1 =BD oz Marvel Mistery oil and 1 =BD oz = 2 cycle oil. And I plan to not forget to put it in each time! :>) =20 If I change oil every 50 hours, I will use around 2.5 gal of oil between changes. Anybody have data that indicates I will have to drain oil = between changes? I assume that Marvel is as good for the crankcase as the 2 = cycle is bad for it??? My setup holds 8 quarts when full. I was thinking = about running it about a quart low on changes. =93Input!, I need input!=94 =20 Bill B=20 =20 I am looking forward to reading John=92s writeup about his incident. He always did such a good job describing what was going on with his build, = I was sorta sad when he finished. :>( =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Yvon Cournoyer Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade I have been using a ratio of 1:140 for some time and still getting an increase in the oil pan. I do not run above 5500-5600 engine rpm. My = engine is a 1986 13B. Yvon. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade =20 Just talked to John again. Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel = filters (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?). = Saw fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started falling. After landing, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them = out. That procedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks. After cleaning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, = hence the failure to start. He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was = super low and that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. = After opening them, the engine started immediately. =20 The RPM anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that = was back to normal. I'm sure we will hear more later. I'm kind of amazed = that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of fuel with no = oil added was used.=20 Just random thoughts: I'm thinking I should cut back on the amount of = oil I add. I'm still accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 = oz per gallon of gas. Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis. = Peripheral exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably overkill. Tracy On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard = wrote: So what caused the evergency landing? Dave Leonard=20 =20 On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: Called John to see if I could help. What a saga! Lots of indications that it is clogged fuel system somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred simultaneously that make no sense at all (like a double rpm indication). John says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops with no oil added to gas (forgot). Engine was running normal at shutdown after emergency landing but now won't start. Unfortunately = John has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics = and has not tried checking for spark while cranking since that is a 2 man = job. I forgot to ask if he had tried the backup on EC2 controller but I = assume he did. =20 Tracy=20 =20 On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev = wrote: Guys, I just got a call from John Slade. He had to do an emergency = landing in Graystone 17FL (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, and he = needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is 860-271-3941. = Please give him a call if you can help in any way. Buly Bulent Aliev =20 --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01CA2CA8.1B028BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I suspect that the proper amount of oil will always result in = oil increasing in the pan.=A0 After all, in the car this oil is recycled out = of the pan.

Does anyone have any good data on how much oil the rotary = “uses” between oil changes?=A0 That would give some idea of how much it would = take to not have any oil get into the pan, but I doubt it is a good idea to have = all the oil burn or blow out.=A0 Lubrication is the = goal.

I plan to use 3 oz per 4 gal.=A0 1 =BD oz Marvel Mistery oil and = 1 =BD oz 2 cycle oil.

And I plan to not forget to put it in each time!=A0 = :>)

 

If I change oil every 50 hours, I will use around 2.5 gal of oil = between changes.=A0 Anybody have data that indicates I will have to drain oil = between changes?=A0 I assume that Marvel is as good for the crankcase as the 2 = cycle is bad for it???=A0 My setup holds 8 quarts when full.=A0 I was thinking = about running it about a quart low on changes.=A0=A0 “Input!, I need = input!”

 

Bill B 

 

I am looking forward to reading John’s writeup about his incident.=A0 He always did such a good job describing what was going on = with his build, I was sorta sad when he finished.=A0 = :>(

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Yvon Cournoyer
Sent: Thursday, September = 03, 2009 2:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Help for John Slade

I have been using a ratio of 1:140 for some = time and still getting an increase in the oil pan. I do not run above 5500-5600 = engine rpm. My engine is a 1986 13B. = Yvon.

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Tracy Crook

Sent: = Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:04 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Help for John Slade

 

Just talked to = John again.  Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel filters (John = mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?).   Saw fuel = pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started falling.   = After landing, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them out.  = That procedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks.  After cleaning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, = hence the failure to start.  He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was = super low and that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. =    After opening them, the engine started immediately. 

The RPM anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if = that was back to normal.  I'm sure we will hear more later.  I'm kind = of amazed that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of = fuel with no oil added was used.

Just random thoughts:   I'm thinking I should cut back on the = amount of oil I add.  I'm still accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when = using 3/4 oz per gallon of gas.  Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis.  Peripheral exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis = but 1 oz/gal is probably overkill.

Tracy

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> = wrote:

So what caused the evergency landing?

Dave Leonard

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:

Called John to see if I could help.  What a saga! =    Lots of indications that it is clogged fuel system somewhere but also = some symptoms that occurred simultaneously that make no sense at all (like a = double rpm indication).   John says compression is good/normal in = spite of two fuel stops with no oil added to gas (forgot).  Engine was = running normal at shutdown after emergency landing but now won't start.  Unfortunately John has none of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics and has not tried checking for spark while cranking = since that is a 2 man job.   I forgot to ask if he had tried the = backup on EC2 controller but I assume he did. 

Tracy

 

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev <bulent@enginegearonline.com> wrote:

Guys, I just = got a call from John Slade. He had to do an emergency landing in Graystone = 17FL (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, and he needs someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is 860-271-3941. Please give him a call = if you can help in any way.
Buly
Bulent = Aliev

 



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

 

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