X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3750053 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:24:16 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.101; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1247099055; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=KY+slB mbjyCRZG/iOFKbnscKJH1bkNOU6H8VEgKFffQ=; b=hGgn9zIQHX5kRh7dp/tvesR7Y SbvILt5j6pxG3sJLsBi4t+Wpo9zco9BpRjaAqhN6HAhkzRzf3S+vOTl2s4r5Q== Received: from fwebmail09.isp.att.net ([204.127.218.109]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20090709002339H0100c6952e>; Thu, 9 Jul 2009 00:23:40 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.218.109] Received: from [64.250.221.104] by fwebmail09.isp.att.net; Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:23:39 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: SAG- Spark plugs 2592 or 2692? Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:23:39 +0000 Message-Id: <070920090023.3438.4A55388B0000FB8500000D6E22218675169B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Because this plug has been used by several on this list and its use has b= een a topic of discussion in the past.................."And" because one of the most kn= owledgeable members of our little group Lynn Hanover has personally seen it used.......= .....But you are correct that one has to be careful what plugs you put in a 13B to m= ake sure that nothing projects into the rotor chamber on the leading plugs and = that the plug tip is not too long and makes contact with the steel rotor housing lin= er when used for the trailing plug (Small plug opening).............Jump in here Ly= nn !!............ A noted Arizonia rotary engine builder tested this plug some years ago an= d his most notable comment was that it did not live as long as some of the others= he had tested.............But they are relatively cheap and if they will last = as long as any other plug before encountering "SAG" then their use might be easier on = the pocketbook.............I plan on their use for breakin and tuning and fligh= t if no problems with them are encountered............FWIW=20=20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Bill Bradburry" : --------------=20 Kelly. I have always been afraid to change something like plugs that I don=E2=80= =99t know anything about. I read somewhere that the plug could extend into= the chamber and be hit by the apex seal. How would you know that a plug w= ould fit if it is not listed?? (other than Lynn said it would :>) )=20 Bill B From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs 2592 or 2692? Bill, You are correct................You have to look up the AR2592 plugs by par= t number............This plug is actually used in some early Chevrolet and Chrysler Big block engines for= racing.......... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from "Bill Bradburry" : --------------=20 Kelly, I don=E2=80=99t see a call out for the rotary engine in the Autolite info= =E2=80=A6??? =20 Bill B=20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 3:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs 2592 or 2692? Jeff and All, =20 I believe the mystery is solved...............Apparently "AR2692" is= a typo error and "AR2592" is correct..............Check out the link below............Fu= ll of info.....=20 =20 http://www.autolite.com/pdf/Autolite_HP_Apps.pdf =20 Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" : -----= ---------=20 Jeff, I have never found a trace of a "AR2692"............Lynn which is correct= ??................... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from Jeff Whaley : --= ------------=20 Lynn=E2=80=99s email referenced 2 part numbers =E2=80=A6 Poor folks race wi= th Autolight AR2692 and =E2=80=A6 In the picture, left to right is the Auto= light AR2592. So which number is it correct? 2592 or 2692? Jeff =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs =20 Lynn and Group, =20 I checked my local "Auto Zone" and they claimed to be unable to ge= t the "AutoLite" AR2592 sparkplug...............Checked "Rock Auto" (Link below) and they ha= ve them in packs of 4 for $2.69 (each plug)...........Ordered 8 of them for $21.52 + $= 5.47 shipping but "AutoLite" has a rebate offer of $0.50 per plug for up to 16 plugs unti= l Nov. 30,2009 for copper core plugs (rebate link below).............To find the sparkplug= do a part number search (AR2592) , Add the manufacturer (AutoLite) , Then use "all" for the = part group because if you use "Ignition" and "Sparkplug" for part type it will say "No= part found".... =20 FWIW=20 =20 =20 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?a=3DG-Store =20 http://www.autolite.com/rebate/pdf/spark-plug-09.pdf -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from Lynn Hanover : --= ------------=20 In a message dated 7/7/2009 3:22:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bbradburry@= bellsouth.net writes: Steve, I hope Lynn chimes in here. He has seen a lot of plugs under a lot of conditions. They look pitted to me. There seems nothing wrong with your conditions. The only thing on the list would be too lean.?? Someone is out there writing up a great response right now! :>) Bill B=20 That plug has been too hot.=20 =20 Stock Mazda plugs are rather cold in heat range by way of the guards around= the shell. The electrode runs a bit hotter than normal. Plug heat ranges a= re determined by how far down the shell the porcelain touches. The longer t= he heat path, the hotter the plug.=20 =20 Using car plugs in the aircraft application seems to be asking for trouble.= In the car on the freeway you use 2,600 RPM and 1/2 throttle, maybe 24 to = 28 HP. Not much of a challenge for a spark plug. But there is the=20 driver who will jump into his 95 twin turbo in LA and run out to LasVegas a= t full tilt and expect to still have an engine when he gets there. And usua= lly he does. So, if I was to use a street plug in an aircraft, I would use= the 93-95 twin turbo plug, whatever that is. =20 The aircraft application, less the 100LL fuel problem, is clearly a cold ra= cing plug with a conventional gap or close to it.=20 =20 Years ago when we started racing rotaries, Champion said to use the N-57G F= ine wire center with gold paladium plating and a conventional ground strap.= About 20% of the center wire is exposed in an end view. =20 The N-57G and similar are discontinued and the N-82 series replaced it. The= shell is thinner and the porcelain is wider. Same fine wire center, no gol= d anything. 20% of the wire exposed in an end view.=20 Both worked fine even with points and a Kettering coil. =20 Poor folks race with Autolight AR2692 end style and small porcelain just li= ke the N-57G. Full size center wire, conventional strap, but 100% of the ce= nter wire is exposed in an end view. Actually used by NASCAR and the local = circle track people, and stocked by Autozone and others. About $5.00 a box = of 4. They work fine. I raced them one weekend, no problems, but we were ge= tting the NGK plugs for free so I stuck with them.=20 =20 The NGKR6725-115 stamped on the body actually means that the heat range is = 11.5 not 115. $25.00 each. 50% of the center wire exposed in an end view. Free for some Rotary engined= competitors. Retracted gap (the whole thing is inside the shell. Fine wire= center and fine wire ground strap. Ice cold. Long body so it is easy to in= stall and remove in the rotary.=20 =20 I grind off those eyebrow things above the plug holes so I can use any plug= I like. And any 5/8" plug just goes in so easy. Most heat ranges are avail= able in the 5/8" shells.=20 =20 Rotaries do not like high heat range plugs. The housings crack across the l= eading plug hole. Over time a complete set of radial cracks form.=20 =20 In the picture, left to right is the Autolight AR2592, Champion N-82, NGK R= 6725-115, and Champion=20 N-57G.=20 =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
  Because this plug has been used by several on this list and its= use has been a topic
of discussion in the past.................."And" because one of the mo= st knowledgeable
members of our little group Lynn Hanover has personally seen it used..= ..........But
you are correct that one has to be careful what plugs you put in = a 13B to make
sure that nothing projects into the rotor chamber on the leading plugs=  and that the
plug tip is not too long and makes contact with the steel rotor housin= g liner when
used for the trailing plug (Small plug opening).............Jump = in here Lynn !!............
  A noted Arizonia rotary engine builder tested this plug some ye= ars ago and his
most notable comment was that it did not live as long as some of the o= thers he
had tested.............But they are relatively cheap and if they will = last as long as
any other plug before encountering "SAG" then their use might be easie= r on the
pocketbook.............I plan on their use for breakin and tuning and = flight if no
problems with them are encountered............FWIW  
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d
-------------- Original message from "Bill Bradburry" <bb= radburry@bellsouth.net>: --------------

Kelly.

I have always been afraid to change something like plugs = that I don=E2=80=99t know anything about.  I read somewhere that the p= lug could extend into the chamber and be hit by the apex seal.  How wo= uld you know that a plug would fit if it is not listed??  (other than = Lynn said it would :>) ) 

Bill B

From: Rotary moto= rs in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 = 7:45 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs 25= 92 or 2692?

Bill,

 You are correct................You have to look up = the AR2592 plugs by part number............This plug

is actually used in some early Chevrolet and Chrysle= r Big block engines for racing..........

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyk= e Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/O= il Manifold


 

-------------- Original message from "Bill Bradburry" <= ;bbradburry@bellsouth.net>:= --------------


Kelly,

I don=E2=80=99t see a call out for the rotary engine in t= he Autolite info=E2=80=A6???

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net] On Behalf Of K= elly Troyer
Sent: Wednes= day, July 08, 2009 3:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in airc= raft
Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spark plugs 2592 or 2692?<= /P>

Jeff and All,

 

       I believe the myster= y is solved...............Apparently "AR2692" is a typo error

and "AR2592" is correct..............Check out the link b= elow............Full of info..... 

 

 


Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil= Manifold

 

-------------- Original mes= sage from "Kelly Troyer" <keltro@att.net>: --------------

Jeff,

  I have never found a trace of a "AR2692"..........= ..Lynn which is correct ??...................

<= /DIV>

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyk= e Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/O= il Manifold

 

-------------- Original mes= sage from Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>: --------------

= Lynn<= /SPAN>So which number is it cor= rect? 2592 or 2692?

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors in aircr= aft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 2:35 PMTo: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] SAG- Spa= rk plugs

 

Lynn and Group,

 

         I checke= d my local "Auto Zone" and they claimed to be unable to get the "AutoLite"<= o:p>

AR2592 sparkplug...............Checked "Rock Auto" (Link = below) and they have them in

packs of 4 for $2.69 (each plug)...........Ordered 8 of t= hem for $21.52 + $5.47 shipping

but "AutoLite" has a rebate offer of $0.50 per plug for u= p to 16 plugs until Nov. 30,2009

for copper core plugs (rebate link below).............To = find the sparkplug do a part number

search (AR2592) , Add the manufacturer (AutoLite) , = Then use "all" for the part group

because if you use "Ignition" and "Sparkplug" for part ty= pe it will say "No part found"....

 

FWIW 

 

 

 

--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyk= e Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/O= il Manifold

 

-------------- Original mes= sage from Lynn Hanover <lehanover@gmail.com>: --------------

In a message dated 7/7/2009 3:22:56 P.M. Pacific Daylight= Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net= writes:

Steve,
I hope Lynn chimes in here.  He has seen a lot of= plugs under a lot of
conditions.  They look pitted to me.  Th= ere seems nothing wrong with your
conditions.  The only thing on th= e list would be too lean.??
Someone is out there writing up a great resp= onse right now!  :>)
Bill B

That plug has been too hot.

=

 

Stock Mazda plugs are rather cold in heat range by way of= the guards around the shell. The electrode runs a bit hotter than normal. = Plug heat ranges are determined by how far down the shell the porcelain tou= ches. The longer the heat path, the hotter the plug.

 

Using car plugs in the aircraft application seems to be a= sking for trouble. In the car on the freeway you use 2,600 RPM and 1/2 thro= ttle, maybe 24 to 28 HP. Not much of a challenge for a spark plug. But= there is the

driver who will jump into his 95 twin turbo in LA and run= out to LasVegas at full tilt and expect to still have an engine when = he gets there. And usually he does.  So, if I was to use a street plug= in an aircraft, I would use the 93-95 twin turbo plug, whatever that is.

 

The aircraft application, less the 100LL fuel problem, is= clearly a cold racing plug with a conventional gap or close to it.

 

Years ago when we started racing rotaries, Champion said = to use the N-57G Fine wire center with gold paladium plating and a conventi= onal ground strap. About 20% of the center wire is exposed in an end view.<= o:p>

 

The N-57G and similar are discontinued and the N-82 serie= s replaced it. The shell is thinner and the porcelain is wider. Same fine w= ire center, no gold anything. 20% of the wire exposed in an end view. =

Both worked fine even with points and a Kettering= coil.

 

Poor folks race with Autolight AR2692 end style and small= porcelain just like the N-57G. Full size center wire, conventional strap, = but 100% of the center wire is exposed in an end view. Actually used by NAS= CAR and the local circle track people, and stocked by Autozone and others. = About $5.00 a box of 4. They work fine. I raced them one weekend, no proble= ms, but we were getting the NGK plugs for free so I stuck with them. <= /o:p>

 

The NGKR6725-115 stamped on the body actually means that = the heat range is 11.5 not 115. $25.00 each.

50% of the center wire exposed in an end view. Free for s= ome Rotary engined competitors. Retracted gap (the whole thing is inside th= e shell. Fine wire center and fine wire ground strap. Ice cold. Long body s= o it is easy to install and remove in the rotary. =

 

I grind off those eyebrow things above the plug holes so = I can use any plug I like. And any 5/8" plug just goes in so easy. Most hea= t ranges are available in the 5/8" shells.

 

Rotaries do not like high heat range plugs. The housings = crack across the leading plug hole. Over time a complete set of radial crac= ks form.

 

In the picture, left to right is the Autolight AR2592, Ch= ampion N-82, NGK R6725-115, and Champion

N-57G. 

 

Lynn E. Hanover

 

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_3438_1247099019_0--