X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.241.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3682068 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:58:22 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.41; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090614135745.FXZN20430.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:57:45 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.135.181]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 3pxk1c0083uzsQg04pxkbm; Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:57:44 -0400 X-VR-Score: -60.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9txTbDaRQqEA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=BMTG-b2EXPImQO7H78IA:9 a=mZLbTrlZlgSC2yRrHNoA:7 a=N-Hw80MwaZQg83zTnHppCZiVhKcA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=KGoSOG9tCcvmqhO2-dUA:9 a=rNS5rffqHYYVE00Mfj8A:7 a=xTgN4uHXWd-7MK4vciVtS0polmoA:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Wire separation? Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:58:28 -0800 Message-ID: <1A4AF17605334E308FFD8E08E119EDC0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C9ECBD.85177190" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcnsdyCpEHAGAYHWQrmXo4/9L/vM0QAhc7cg This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C9ECBD.85177190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris; Yeah; what Joe said. Another option in the Velocity is to run some wires through the keel. Since I chose to separate the wiring to the two sets of injectors and coils from each other to maintain redundancy all the way from the dual batteries; I have one set down the right duct and one set through the keel. You can get by with less than 6" separation, especially for shorter distances Another way to cancel induction noise is twisted pairs of power and ground leads; or as I chose to do is run the power leads inside a copper pipe (which is inside the right wiring duct), where the pipe is the ground lead. Probably not something you'd like to try at this point. Induction noise is one type; the other is spikes generated in lines by switching inductive loads, like relays and solenoids. These can be filtered by snubber diodes across the inductive load. I was surprised at the size of the spike induced by my staging relay (peculiar to the 3-rotor version) before snubbing. Of course even with all this, you'll probably recall I had a devil of time with corruption of EC2 settings until we finally added further filtering on the EC2 board. One possible reason is that I have redundant power leads to the EC2, isolated by diodes at the EC2 since the A/B controller power is common internally. These diodes will also stop noise in the EC2 from feeding back to the battery. Never did determine whether that was an issue as we had solved the problem other ways before considering it. Capacitors across the diodes could eliminate that issue. Best of luck, Al -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Barber Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 2:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Wire separation? Since I have had some apparent wire issues I am individually checking all the wires for my ECU, pumps, coils injectors etc. One of the things Tracy mentions in the wire instructions is to have some wires (ie those running to the injectors and the coils, IIRC) not be bundled with other wires. My question is what does this mean exactly? I understand you would not actually tie them together in the same actual bundle, but, some of the basic path, in my case down the co-pilot wire tunnel in a larger canard aircraft, has some of these wires in definite immediate proximity of each other. Also, of course, as they meet up at the D-sub connections, they run together for a bit. So, what is the conventional wisdom on the separation of these "noisy" wires. Since I am checking them all, and some of wires need to be pulled out to do so properly, it seems to be the ideal time to make sure this is done properly and hopefully eliminate one more potential problem. TIA All the best, Chris Barber Houston Velocity SE -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C9ECBD.85177190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris;

 

Yeah; what Joe said.  Another option in the = Velocity is to run some wires = through the keel.  Since I chose to separate the wiring to the two sets of injectors and coils from each other to maintain redundancy all the way = from the dual batteries; I have one set down the right duct and one set through = the keel.  You can get by with less than 6” separation, = especially for shorter distances

 

Another way to cancel induction noise is twisted = pairs of power and ground leads; or as I chose to do is run the power leads = inside a copper pipe (which is inside the right wiring duct), where the pipe is = the ground lead. Probably not something you’d like to try at this = point.

 

Induction noise is one type; the other is spikes = generated in lines by switching inductive loads, like relays and solenoids. These = can be filtered by snubber diodes across the inductive load. I was surprised at = the size of the spike induced by my staging relay (peculiar to the 3-rotor = version) before snubbing.

 

Of course even with all this, you’ll probably = recall I had a devil of time with corruption of EC2 settings until we finally = added further filtering on the EC2 board.  One possible reason is that I = have redundant power leads to the EC2, isolated by diodes at the EC2 since = the A/B controller power is common internally.  These diodes will also stop = noise in the EC2 from feeding back to the battery.  Never did determine = whether that was an issue as we had solved the problem other ways before = considering it.  Capacitors across the diodes could eliminate that = issue.

 

Best of luck,

 

Al

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Christopher Barber
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 2:34 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Wire separation?

 

Since I have had some apparent wire issues I am individually checking =

all the wires for my ECU, pumps, coils injectors etc.

 

One of the things Tracy mentions in the wire instructions is = to have

some wires (ie those running to the injectors and the coils, IIRC) not =

be bundled with other wires.  My question is what does this mean =

exactly?  I understand you would not actually tie them together in the =

same actual bundle, but, some of the basic path, in my case down the =

co-pilot wire tunnel in a larger canard aircraft, has some of these =

wires in definite immediate proximity of each other.  Also, of course, =

as they meet up at the D-sub connections, they run together for a = bit.

 

So, what is the conventional wisdom on the separation of these = "noisy"

wires.  Since I am checking them all, and some of wires need to be =

pulled out to do so properly, it seems to be the ideal time to make sure =

this is done properly and hopefully eliminate one more potential = problem.

 

TIA

 

All the best,

 

Chris Barber

Houston

Velocity SE

 

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