X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost02.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3545283 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:09:54 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.102; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1236877793; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=Es48hN W11B21Po0FP3xGfJn0+qD2niEihqv8ny+8GCs=; b=OCvBAcdtIt9kGhJNjwj/FbOQ8 pSg/p2hzINyvCTOwwAOfDqCKFiodfbXfl7HT0u1YO6r58FeZVoJ6h4q3T/OMA== Received: from fwebmail18.isp.att.net ([207.115.9.158]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc02) with SMTP id <20090312170918H0200ftt5ae>; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.115.9.158] Received: from [208.114.32.73] by fwebmail18.isp.att.net; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:17 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: IVO Prop Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:17 +0000 Message-Id: <031220091709.26797.49B941BC000DBCC9000068AD22230703629B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Oct 30 2008) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26797_1236877757_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26797_1236877757_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, Have been following this with much interest...........If you may recall I= also have the "IVO" for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we discussed how to = reduce=20 or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless root section = of the blades........I had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 inch diame= ter "Mustang II" spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your "RV4"...........I hav= e spent the last 2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my "DELTA" and= have not been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I would b= e very interested to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation that may = have used a large diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the root section = of the blades..... The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of this virtually flat roo= t section........ If the airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of this root section = will be covered if I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW=20=20 =20=20=20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" : -----= ---------=20 > John,=20 >=20 > I looked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But was scare= d=20 > off by a number of things:=20 >=20 > 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a delaminated trailing edge on the fligh= t=20 > line at Copperstate fly-in.=20 > 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO had the= =20 > prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing that totaled the= =20 > plane.=20 > 3) Tracy's experience re reduced performance at speed.=20 > 4) The issues experienced by Lyc powered users.=20 >=20 > Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to something going through the prop with = the=20 > engine running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves Tracy's=20 > experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that you fly a= =20 > pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not have the prop root= =20 > issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than stock spin= ner=20 > and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm not= =20 > sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be pretty cl= ose=20 > though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement.=20 >=20 > Thanks for the feedback.=20 >=20 > Mike Wills=20 > RV-4 N144MW=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "John Slade"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop=20 >=20 >=20 > > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell me mor= e.=20 > > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of equipment= .=20 > > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the hub.=20 > > Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the= =20 > > blades equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems= =20 > > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by= =20 > > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomings. The IV= O=20 > > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less "pulsy"=20 > > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly taken any= =20 > > extra torque.=20 > >=20 > > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performa= nce=20 > > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on full f= ine=20 > > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power on take= =20 > > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've had 180 = kts=20 > > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and without ever go= ing=20 > > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back o= n=20 > > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much easier to l= and=20 > > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly well, eve= n=20 > > at idle.=20 > >=20 > > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO (Franklin 6= )=20 > > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.=20 > >=20 > > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very helpful.=20 > >=20 > > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better recommendation coul= d=20 > > you want? :)=20 > >=20 > > Regards,=20 > > John Slade=20 > > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM=20 > > 98.1 Hrs.=20 > >=20 > > Mike Wills wrote:=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Mike Wills=20 > >> RV-4 N144MW=20 > >>=20 > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade"=20 > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM=20 > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. I'm very=20 > >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop thats = a=20 > >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well.=20 > >>> John=20 > >>>=20 > >>> Tracy Crook wrote:=20 > >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both worlds bu= t=20 > >>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas.=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>> --=20 > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >>> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> --=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > Archive and UnSub:=20 > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html=20 --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26797_1236877757_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26797_1236877757_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_26797_1236877757_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mike,
  Have been following this with much interest...........If you ma= y recall I also have the "IVO"
for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we discussed ho= w to reduce
or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless root sec= tion of the blades........I
had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 inch = diameter "Mustang II"
spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your "RV4"...........= I have spent the last
2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my "DELTA= " and have not
been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I wo= uld be very interested
to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation that= may have used a large
diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the root sec= tion of the blades.....
 
 The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of this vir= tually flat root section........ If  the
airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of this roo= t section will be covered if
I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW &nb= sp;
 
   
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" <rv-4mi= ke@cox.net>: --------------


> John,
>
> I l= ooked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But was scared > off by a number of things:
>
> 1) Watched Dave Atkins r= epairing a delaminated trailing edge on the flight
> line at Coppers= tate fly-in.
> 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adj= ustable IVO had the
> prop come apart in flight resulting in a force= d landing that totaled the
> plane.
> 3) Tracy's experience r= e reduced performance at speed.
> 4) The issues experienced by Lyc p= owered users.
>
> Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to some= thing going through the prop with the
> engine running. Issue 4 seem= s to be not relevant. This leaves Tracy's
> experience with the IVO.= I wasnt thinking about the fact that you fly a
> pusher when I aske= d, but presumably a pusher would not have the prop root
> issue that= Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than stock spinner
>= and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm not =
> sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be pr= etty close
> though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgem= ent.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Mike Will= s
> RV-4 N144MW
>
>
>
> ----- Original M= essage -----
> From: "John Slade"
> To= : "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> Sent: T= uesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop
&= gt;
>
> > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any succes= s with an IVO. Tell me more.
> > What do you want to know? Its a = very well engineered piece of equipment.
> > The CF blades are ho= llow and have a steel rod running to the hub.
> > Activating the = motor via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the
> > blades= equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems
> &= gt; with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by=
> > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomi= ngs. The IVO
> > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and = other less "pulsy"
> > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my= blades have hardly taken any
> > extra torque.
> > > > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch P= erformance
> > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. W= ith the IVO on full fine
> > I get closer to 5400 which gives me = access to a lot more power on take
> > off. I've never done a "hi= gh speed" run with the IVO, but I've had 180 kts
> > indicated at= 2000' a few times without much effort, and without ever going
> >= ; to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back on =
> > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much e= asier to land
> > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing yo= u along fairly well, even
> > at idle.
> >
> >= ; I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO (Franklin 6) =
> > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.
&g= t; >
> > The factory people are very easy to deal with and ver= y helpful.
> >
> > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an I= VO. What better recommendation could
> > you want? :)
> &g= t;
> > Regards,
> > John Slade
> > Turbo Rota= ry Cozy IV, N96PM
> > 98.1 Hrs.
> >
> > Mike = Wills wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Wil= ls
> >> RV-4 N144MW
> >>
> >> ----- = Original Message ----- From: "John Slade"
> &= gt;> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
&g= t; >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM
> >> Subjec= t: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing
> >>
> >>
&= gt; >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. = I'm very
> >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fix= ed pitch wood prop thats a
> >>> piece of art, but doesn't = work anywhere near as well.
> >>> John
> >>>= ;
> >>> Tracy Crook wrote:
> >>> A variable= pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both worlds but
> >&= gt;> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas.
> &g= t;>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>= ; --
> >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >= ;>> Archive and UnSub:
> >>> http://mail.lancaironlin= e.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >>>
> >> =
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> = Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >> Archive and UnSub: > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >= ; Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
= > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
&g= t; >
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://ww= w.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:= 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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