X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qy0-f134.google.com ([209.85.221.134] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3544727 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:42:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.134; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qyk40 with SMTP id 40so508276qyk.7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:41:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+eSxU4KqwwFTvPIubRl43dfH2cqWMrDR3mKXL/XTE+U=; b=WHpjKBEdtBMG03SLysYKe33J25Z/DBaYW7FuZzcJKM0CvrY72rBF9lHflvl0IJ791k IDlUzA1ZwYA5eqOPASkvFRgw+vs2P+UkisnHoePGs/T8qV538Y2lnr5BDDik3wYemj8A cZFslmUz76lm1oleXleMfPLGT04AFEF169O2k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=dUvgdjriKRbS0f7N+XsULMIs2aieEhz4XeLn/A9RhDCM4Dr9f64lMs7mSrvYYC3mPu F0Wdk/eEnyhq142eafCMupvQaMPLtoxsWh/w53C08e6qydqqISK/QPM1H/X8qLFpCEHa JgTq12pJd4TEkZl/TZcJBvdh/IVkzUMluD/9s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.67.206 with SMTP id s14mr12352835qai.289.1236825709649; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:41:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:41:49 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3c1c9212fe35befb Message-ID: <1b4b137c0903111941m386ca333te389fe1c57c62008@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Prop From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d012212a0770464e2ed29 --0015175d012212a0770464e2ed29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, As a general rule of thumb, there will be about 1000 rpm difference between static and top speed RPM at sea level for RV speeds (fixed pitch prop). The last 10 - 20 mph can take a surprisingly long time. How clean the airframe is can affect the top speed and RPM quite a bit. At higher altitudes, max rpm falls off a bit due to falling HP. Perception of engine "comfort" depends a lot on muffler, engine mount and prop balance. The most 'serene' flight I ever had was the 2003 Sun 100 race with the engine humming at 6300 rpm. Everything felt just right. The 2004 race at 7250 rpm was almost as good. The rpm difference was due to the different drive ratios. Tracy On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:13 PM, Mike Wills wrote: > Tracy, > > My RV static RPM is 5350 - 5400 with my Warnke prop which seems pretty > good. This is with a 2.17 ratio RD-1. When the prop unloads in level flight > what should I expect to see for RPM at full power? Max RPM I've seen in > level flight, full throttle, 8,000' was about 5700 - 5800 but I may not have > given things enough time to settle out. What are people typically setting > for cruise RPMs/MP? With the limited flight testing I've done so far my > engine feels pretty comfortable at around 5,000 RPM and that has been a > typical power setting for me to date. Still getting used to the different > sounds and sight picture with the high RPMs and cheekless cowl. > > At higher power settings/RPM it feels "busy" - hard to describe and it may > just be a comfort factor thing that I need to get used to. > > Mike Wills > RV-4 N144MW > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tracy Crook > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:48 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Prop > > Yep, should have thought about pushers when I wrote that comment. The IVO > seems to work well on pushers since the stalled inner part of the blades is > in turbulent air and doesn't cost them the drag that it does on tractors. > Tractors are pretty much stuck with high priced variable pitch stuff like MT > to equal the performance of a *well matched* fixed pitch prop. > > What is well matched? If you are running an RD-1B the static rpm should > be 5100 - 5500. With the RD-1C it should be 5900 - 6300 rpm. If you get > less than that, it isn't a well matched prop. This also assumes that the > engine is performing up to par of course. The exact number depends on what > you want to optomize, climb performance or cruise economy. > > One more caveat: If you are putting it on a plane with a cruise speed > below ~ 150 MPH, the IVO also works on tractors as well. On my RV-4 the IVO > cut top speed about 15 mph. and around 10 mph from cruise compared to a well > matched fixed pitch prop. > > Tracy > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:41 AM, John Slade wrote: > >> >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell me more. >> What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of equipment. >> The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the hub. Activating >> the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the blades equally. >> The twist change is quite visible. There were problems with the individual >> blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by providing a knurled hub, >> and not selling to guys with Lycomings. The IVO is available for rotary, >> subaru, Franklin 6 and other less "pulsy" engines. After the first 15 hours >> or so my blades have hardly taken any extra torque. >> >> My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performance >> prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on full fine I >> get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power on take off. >> I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've had 180 kts >> indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and without ever going >> to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back on >> full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much easier to land >> and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly well, even at >> idle. >> >> I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO (Franklin 6) >> and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use. >> >> The factory people are very easy to deal with and very helpful. >> >> The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better recommendation could >> you want? :) >> >> Regards, >> John Slade >> Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM >> 98.1 Hrs. >> >> Mike Wills wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Mike Wills >>> RV-4 N144MW >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade" >>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing >>> >>> >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. I'm very >>>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop thats a piece >>>> of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well. >>>> John >>>> >>>> Tracy Crook wrote: >>>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both worlds but >>>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > --0015175d012212a0770464e2ed29 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike,
As a general rule of thumb, there will be about 1000 rpm differenc= e between static and top speed RPM at sea level for RV speeds (fixed pitch = prop).=A0 The last 10 - 20 mph can take a surprisingly long time.=A0 How cl= ean the airframe is can affect the top speed and RPM quite a bit.=A0 At hig= her altitudes, max rpm falls off a bit due to falling HP.

Perception of engine "comfort" depends a lot on muffler, engi= ne mount and prop balance.=A0 The most 'serene' flight I ever had w= as the 2003 Sun 100 race with the engine humming at 6300 rpm.=A0 Everything= felt just right.=A0 The 2004 race at 7250 rpm was almost as good.=A0 The r= pm difference was due to the different drive ratios.

Tracy



On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at= 10:13 PM, Mike Wills <rv-4mike@cox.net> wrote:
Tracy,
=A0
=A0My RV static RPM is=A05350 - 5400 w= ith my=20 Warnke prop=A0which seems pretty good. This is with a 2.17 ratio=20 RD-1.=A0When the prop unloads in level flight what should I expect to see f= or=20 RPM at full power? Max RPM I've seen in level flight, full throttle, 8,= 000' was=20 about 5700 - 5800 but I may not have given things enough time to settle=20 out.=A0What are people typically setting for cruise RPMs/MP? With the limit= ed=20 flight testing I've done so far my engine feels pretty comfortable at a= round=20 5,000 RPM and that has been a typical power setting for me to date. Still= =20 getting used to the different sounds and sight picture with the high RPMs a= nd=20 cheekless cowl.
=A0
=A0At higher power settings/RPM it fee= ls "busy"=20 - hard to describe and it may just be a comfort factor thing that I need to= get=20 used to.
=A0
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:= 48=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Prop<= /div>

Yep, should have thought about pushers when I wrote that= =20 comment.=A0 The IVO seems to work well on pushers since the stalled inner= =20 part of the blades is in turbulent air and doesn't cost them the drag= that it=20 does on tractors.=A0 Tractors are pretty much stuck with high priced=20 variable pitch stuff like MT to equal the performance of a well matche= d=20 fixed pitch prop.

What is well matched? =A0=A0 If you are running= =20 an RD-1B the static rpm should be 5100 - 5500.=A0=A0 With the RD-1C it=20 should be 5900 - 6300 rpm.=A0=A0=A0 If you get less than that, it=20 isn't a well matched prop.=A0 This also assumes that the engine is=20 performing up to par of course. The exact number depends on what you want= to=20 optomize, climb performance or cruise economy.

One more caveat:=A0= =20 If you are putting it on a plane with a cruise speed below ~ 150 MPH, the= IVO=20 also works on tractors as well.=A0 On my RV-4 the IVO cut top speed about= =20 15 mph. and around 10 mph from cruise compared to a well matched fixed pi= tch=20 prop.

Tracy


On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 12:41 AM, John Slade <= span dir=3D"ltr"><sladerj@sbcglobal.net>=20 wrote:
>I=20 didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell me=20 more.
What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of= =20 equipment. The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the= hub.=20 Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the b= lades=20 equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems with th= e=20 individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by providin= g a=20 knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomings. The IVO is availab= le=20 for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less "pulsy" engines= . After the=20 first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly taken any extra torque.
<= br>My=20 performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performance= =20 prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on full f= ine I=20 get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power on take of= f.=20 I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I= 9;ve had 180 kts=20 indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and without eve= r going=20 to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back o= n=20 full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much easier to l= and=20 and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly well,= even at=20 idle.

I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IV= O=20 (Franklin 6) and is very happy with it after around 5 years of=20 use.

The factory people are very easy to deal with and very=20 helpful.

The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better=20 recommendation could you want? :)

Regards,
John Slade
Turb= o=20 Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM
98.1 Hrs.

Mike Wills wrote:


Mike= =20 Wills
RV-4 N144MW

----- Original Message ----- From: "= John=20 Slade" <sladerj@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Rotary motors in=20 aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March= =20 10, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing

<= br>
The=20 IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. I'm very = pleased=20 with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop th= ats a piece of=20 art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well.
John

Tra= cy Crook=20 wrote:
A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of bo= th=20 worlds but it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of= =20 gas.



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--=20
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