X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.186] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.6) with ESMTPS id 3077636 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:31:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.186; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-219-247.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.219.247]) by mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m7F7UgRa021918 for ; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:30:44 +1000 Message-ID: <000f01c8fea8$d6979bc0$6400a8c0@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tank problem with Mogas vs fouled spark plugs Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:30:46 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C8FEFC.A708E1D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080814-0, 14/08/2008), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C8FEFC.A708E1D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Thanks for the response, I know Hysol is expensive and a high end Epoxy. = I am unsure what Europa uses and if it's Ethanol resistant- so I sent = them an e-mail and will advise if there is any positive information. George ( down under) George,=20 I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "a premo product", but the Hysol = specified by Lancair went for over $100 per quart, plus shipping = (including a hazardous materials surcharge). Between my two wings I = used about 6 quarts. I will have to check, but I think it was Hysol = 9360. According to this link, it is now $120/qt. You can read the = specs on the stuff at = http://www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=3D9360-QT Mark =20 On 8/14/08, George Lendich wrote:=20 Mark / Bill, It's been a while since I researched this but the high strength = epoxy Europa uses to bond wing skins etc. was a premo product, but I = unsure about how it stands up to alcohol. Anyone have some info on that? George (down under) =20 Bill,=20 My big concern is the bond joint attaching the wing skin to the = spar and ribs. Lancair uses Hysol to bond the honeycomb skin to the = ribs during closeout and there is no way to seal the Hysol off from the = fuel. I have seen pictures of where ethanol had attacked the Hysol. I = don't know how long it took or how it was corrected. So, my main = concern is with the Hysol adhesive, not the Jeffco 9700. Mark=20 =20 On 8/14/08, Bill Schertz wrote:=20 The Jeffco 9700 FCR data sheet showed that it is supposed to be = compatible with gas/alcohol mixes. One of my fellow builders tested = some samples with Jeffco coatings, and Aeropoxy in a mix of = gas/15%Alcohol. The Jeffco coating was intact after the soaking, *but* = it did swell some. The Aeropoxy flaked off . So, any pinholes in the Jeffco, and the underlying aeropoxy = would be attacked, leading to a sequential failure as the underlying = epoxy was attacked. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" = To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tank problem with Mogas vs fouled spark = plugs Bill, Do you still have the container of sealer? If so, why not just = look up the product's data sheet or call the manufacturer to see if it's = safe for alcohol? IIRC, the stuff that Van has sold in recent years = (Flamemaster brand) is alcohol safe. At least, the stuff they shipped to = me was. A bigger concern if you used any old aviation style items like = gascolators, is the likelihood of natural rubber gaskets in them. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C8FEFC.A708E1D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
Thanks for the response, I know Hysol = is expensive=20 and a high end Epoxy. I am unsure what Europa uses and if it's Ethanol=20 resistant- so I sent them an e-mail and will advise if there is any = positive=20 information.
George ( down under)
 
George,
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "a premo product", but the = Hysol=20 specified by Lancair went for over $100 per quart, plus shipping=20 (including a hazardous materials surcharge).  Between my two = wings I used=20 about 6 quarts.  I will have to check, but I think it was Hysol=20 9360.  According to this link, it is now $120/qt.  You can = read the=20 specs on the stuff at http:= //www.aerocraftparts.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=3D9360-QT
 
Mark

 
On 8/14/08, George=20 Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20 wrote:=20
 
Mark / Bill,
It's been a while since I = researched this=20 but the high strength epoxy Europa uses to bond wing skins etc. = was a=20 premo product, but I unsure about how it stands up to = alcohol.
Anyone have some info on = that?
George (down under)

 
Bill,
My big concern is the bond joint attaching the wing = skin to=20 the spar and ribs.  Lancair uses Hysol to bond the honeycomb = skin to=20 the ribs during closeout and there is no way to seal the = Hysol=20 off from the fuel.  I have seen pictures of = where ethanol=20 had attacked the Hysol.  I don't know how long it took = or how it=20 was corrected.  So, my main concern is with the = Hysol=20 adhesive, not the Jeffco 9700.
 
Mark 

 
On 8/14/08, Bill=20 Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:=20
The=20 Jeffco 9700 FCR data sheet showed that it is supposed to be = compatible=20 with gas/alcohol mixes.  One of my fellow builders tested = some=20 samples with Jeffco coatings, and Aeropoxy in a mix of = gas/15%Alcohol.=20  The Jeffco coating was intact after the soaking, *but* it = did=20 swell some. The Aeropoxy flaked off .

So, any pinholes in = the=20 Jeffco, and the underlying aeropoxy would be attacked, leading = to a=20 sequential failure as the underlying epoxy was = attacked.

Bill=20 Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
----- Original Message = -----=20 From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 August 13, 2008 1:26 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tank problem = with=20 Mogas vs fouled spark plugs


Bill,

Do=20 you still have the container of sealer? If so, why not just = look up=20 the product's data sheet or call the manufacturer to see if = it's safe=20 for alcohol? IIRC, the stuff that Van has sold in recent years = (Flamemaster brand) is alcohol safe. At least, the stuff they = shipped=20 to me was. A bigger concern if you used any old aviation style = items=20 like gascolators, is the likelihood of natural rubber gaskets = in=20 them.


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l

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