X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.183] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3030723 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:27:36 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.166.183; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id u77so62532pyb.12 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:26:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=WEDYUizvntlt9v66T6nVdvDJuPEUDiVzhL9wSAOfI5k=; b=hiIT9N7BW/RheoSpglFLU6AR+0kU/lk5dZ/Na7bjR9lPVE++N1GXiBQr+iG5f4aDey iQTlP4jCFXFMXWby4/aRe305tSW1DAteJGDNTg5uYz8NZtV/RCQUJ9UUVsuxol04TtTr pBH+yB4JFAJ07lewySnaYsSBxwcasu6Plv9Oc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=bqJ48OisVZuiiUhfkYnriwKFJVO8/Afr0R/83kHQxHFGqBz3wIxRCWlwVt0fiELkQJ 0vixNedd/FktbI4nozSoa12xQ6rIdYSE/Ed4BrU3A8jK/xGSAtI3DPn7BLtgTxQ6B+6t 80CXZrth0QDo72rZjrBQA+twhgqlAeBYo9Xkc= Received: by 10.141.210.21 with SMTP id m21mr1478767rvq.23.1216330018428; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.82.18 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0807171426o5041ec60mc36068618f8ea46b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:26:58 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: No Spark from Coils In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_41318_28887204.1216330018429" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0851ee80af010023 ------=_Part_41318_28887204.1216330018429 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline To test without all the prop dodging, noise and battery drain of starter, mark where your crank sensor is positioned then pull it out and spin it by hand. Watch for sparks or test for pulses with meter on low voltage range. If you really do have 27 volts on coils inputs, give it up until you find out why. Starting will not happen until this is fixed. I suspect you were reading actuall reading 27 millivolts on the digital meter. look for the little "MV" or similar message on the DVM. Replace CAS in same position when finished with test. FWIW, If you've never updated the EC2 it might be worthwhile doing. Tracy On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:17 PM, John Downing wrote: > Tracy, the new plugs came today and are installed. I have a Heath Kit > analog volt-ohm tester, would it work better than the digital one. I don't > think I can find an oscilloscope around here. The EC2 serial number is in > the early 500's as I recall and doesn't have the diagnostic modes. I will > try and check pin C for voltage pulse before I turn on the fuel to save > flooding a new set of plugs. Thankyou JohnD > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Tracy Crook > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:14 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: No Spark from Coils > > Bob gave you good advice John. Pin C should have about a 3 - 4 volt > pulse on it though (when cranking or running). 27 volts sounds like > measurement error. There is no source of voltage that high in the system. > > Do you have the diagnostic modes? Try it if so. > > Tracy (back from Colorado) > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:12 AM, Bob White wrote: > >> Hi John, >> >> Pin A to engine ground is correct, pin B to EC2 ground is correct, +12V >> on pin D is correct. I'm not sure what you will read on pin C with a >> voltmeter. It should pulse from 0 to +12V, and you will need an >> oscilloscope to see it properly. What really concerns me is the 27 >> Volts. The EC2 ground lead is connected to the EC2 ground stud, and >> that should be connected to airframe ground near the EC2, so that >> voltage should basically be zero. I'm not sure why you would see >> anything anywhere above the 12 to 14 volt bus voltage. >> >> My first suggestion would be to double check ground connections at the >> EC2, and make sure there is a ground strap between the engine and >> battery that will handle the starter currents. >> >> The minimum load on pins 20 and 21 is several K ohms, and shouldn't >> cause any problems, but just to be sure, can you disconnect it >> temporarily? >> >> Bob W. >> >> >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:29:31 -0400 >> "John Downing" wrote: >> >> > Bob W, today I joined the non-start rotor club, I expected it not to >> start after following the Saga of Buly and Chris. We don't have any >> ignition. We checked the wires to the coils and , all coil plugs have >> ground to block on pin A, ground to EC2 on pin B, voltage on Pin D. On >> cranking, Pin C on the volt ohm meter on cranking shows 9 volts, dropping >> to 7 volts which is a steady reading on not pulsing. Pin B which is the >> ground to the EC2, voltage rises to 27 volts. What is the voltage that we >> should be seeing on pins B and C and should C show a pushing voltage? Is >> the Tach interface that you sent me, which is connected to EC2 pins 20 and >> 21 for leading coils having anything to do with the fact that the coils are >> not firing. JohnD >> > >> >> >> -- >> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com >> 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding >> Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/ >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > ------=_Part_41318_28887204.1216330018429 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
To test without all the prop dodging, noise and battery drain of starter, mark where your crank sensor is positioned then pull it out and spin it by hand.   Watch for sparks or test for pulses with meter on low voltage range.  If you really do have 27 volts on coils inputs, give it up until you find out why.  Starting will not happen until this is fixed.  I suspect you were reading actuall reading 27 millivolts on the digital meter.  look for the little "MV" or similar message on the DVM. 
 
 Replace CAS in same position when finished with test. 
 
FWIW, If you've never updated the EC2 it might be worthwhile doing.
 
Tracy

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:17 PM, John Downing <downing.j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Tracy, the new plugs came today and are installed.  I have a Heath Kit analog volt-ohm tester, would it work better than the digital one.  I don't think I can find an oscilloscope around here.  The EC2 serial number is in the early 500's as I recall and doesn't have the diagnostic modes.  I will try and check pin C for voltage pulse before I turn on the fuel to save flooding a new set of plugs.  Thankyou  JohnD
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: No Spark from Coils

Bob gave you good advice John.  Pin C should have about a 3 - 4 volt pulse on it though (when cranking or running).  27 volts sounds like measurement error.  There is no source of voltage that high in the system. 
 
Do you have the diagnostic modes?  Try it if so. 
 
Tracy (back from Colorado)

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:12 AM, Bob White <bob@bob-white.com> wrote:
Hi John,

Pin A to engine ground is correct, pin B to EC2 ground is correct, +12V
on pin D is correct.  I'm not sure what you will read on pin C with a
voltmeter.  It should pulse from 0 to +12V, and you will need an
oscilloscope to see it properly.  What really concerns me is the 27
Volts.  The EC2 ground lead is connected to the EC2 ground stud, and
that should be connected to airframe ground near the EC2, so that
voltage should basically be zero.  I'm not sure why you would see
anything anywhere above the 12 to 14 volt bus voltage.

My first suggestion would be to double check ground connections at the
EC2, and make sure there is a ground strap between the engine and
battery that will handle the starter currents.

The minimum load on pins 20 and 21 is several K ohms, and shouldn't
cause any problems, but just to be sure, can you disconnect it
temporarily?

Bob W.


On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:29:31 -0400
"John Downing" <downing.j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Bob W,  today I joined the non-start rotor club, I expected it not to start after following the Saga of Buly and Chris.  We don't have any ignition.  We checked the wires to the coils and , all coil plugs have ground to block on pin A, ground to EC2 on pin B, voltage on Pin D.  On cranking,  Pin C on the volt ohm meter on cranking shows 9 volts, dropping to 7 volts which is a steady reading on not pulsing.  Pin B which is the ground to the EC2, voltage rises to 27 volts.  What is the voltage that we should be seeing on pins B and C and should C show a pushing voltage?  Is the Tach interface that you sent me, which is connected to EC2 pins 20 and 21 for leading coils having anything to do with the fact that the coils are not firing.  JohnD
>


--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
3.8 Hours Total Time and holding
Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/cables/

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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