X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net ([206.47.199.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.5) with ESMTP id 3024302 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:18:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.47.199.164; envelope-from=lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca Received: from simip9.srvr.bell.ca ([206.47.199.87]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20080713191716.IUBW1669.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@simip9.srvr.bell.ca> for ; Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:17:16 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av8EAOfveUiOp1SL/2dsb2JhbAATgi0yhyQKlCyJUQ Received: from fctnnbsc14w-142167084139.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net (HELO PCdeRita) ([142.167.84.139]) by alconsout.srvr.bell.ca with SMTP; 13 Jul 2008 15:21:37 -0400 Message-ID: <91A4B67D3E5A423B871D676D03D5CBE9@PCdeRita> From: "Rino" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: pre-mix; great trip Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:17:09 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01C8E503.E695D1E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C8E503.E695D1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable About the fuel comming out of the fuel vent. I have a 4 gal header = tank like you. Sometimes when I started the fuel pump it would spit = some fuel out the vent, not every times. I built a small tank, about 2 = ounces and connected the vents from the two lower wing fuel tanks to it = and the header tank vent to the bottom of this small tank. The top of = this tank is vented. No more spit out, when the header tank spit it = drains back to the lower wing tanks. Rino Lacombe Renesis Glass Goose ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: pre-mix; great trip Beautiful picture Al. Good observations on performance. Glad to hear = that everything is working well. =20 Mark S. On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Al Gietzen = wrote: Just returned from about 2500 nm trip. Engine ran great, including = flying over the Rockies west of Denver where I was briefly at about = 14,000 ft with density altitude of 16,500, and still had some throttle = to go. Generally cruising at 165 KTAS, 9.2 =96 9.5 gph, about 5600 rpm. = Not bad for a 4-place airplane. OK, now for some technical stuff. You may recall I converted my 20B = over from pan oil injection to using premix. The main issue is the amount of 2-cycle oil that is ending up in the = oil pan. When mixing 1 oz/gal I found the pan oil level had gone up by = about 1 =BD quarts (from 6 =BD to 8) in about 15 hours of flying; and my = nice clear-amber 15-50 synthetic had become the dark blue-black color of = the SuperTech 2-cycle oil. Doing the math suggests that about 1/3 of the = pre-mix oil is ending up in the pan. That seems way out of line, and = although a suspect it is not harmful to the engine, I don't think it the = best lube for the re-drive. I changed the oil and reduced the amount of = pre-mix to =BE oz per gallon. I'll be surprised if there isn't still = some 2-cycle oil going into the pan. So. . ; suggestions? Use different brand 2-cycle? Further reduce = pre-mix amount? I'm wondering if the fact that my cruise coolant temp is now running = around 150F would result in more of the pre-mix to condense out than if = it was running at maybe 180F. Another thing I notice is a small amount of fuel is coming out of = the fuel vent. The only explanation I can come up with is = foaming/bubbles forming in the return line after the pressure regulator. = This goes into the 3-gallon sump tank and up the =BC" vent line. This = may have been occurring previously, and the fuel evaporated as it went = back along the surface; but now the blue 2-cycle oil is left behind to = be quite visible at the back of the cowl; but I suspect the pre-mix is = exacerbating the foaming.=20 I notice the plugs have less carbon than before, and the inside of = the exhaust exit is now very light grey. Al -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C8E503.E695D1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
About the fuel comming out of the fuel=20 vent.   I have a 4 gal header tank like you.  Sometimes = when I=20 started the fuel pump it would spit some fuel out the vent, not every=20 times.   I built a small tank, about 2 ounces and connected = the vents=20 from the two lower wing fuel tanks to it and the header tank vent to the = bottom=20 of this small tank.  The top of this tank is vented.  No more = spit=20 out, when the header tank spit it drains back to the lower wing=20 tanks.
 
Rino Lacombe
Renesis Glass Goose
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 = 12:47=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = pre-mix; great=20 trip

Beautiful picture Al.  Good observations on=20 performance.  Glad to hear that everything is working well.  =

Mark S.

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Al Gietzen = <ALVentures@cox.net> = wrote:

Just = returned=20 from about 2500 nm trip. Engine ran great, including flying over the = Rockies west = of=20 Denver where = I was=20 briefly at about 14,000 ft with density altitude of 16,500, and = still had=20 some throttle to go. Generally cruising at 165 KTAS, 9.2 =96 9.5 = gph, about=20 5600 rpm. Not bad for a 4-place airplane.

 

OK, now = for some=20 technical stuff.  You=20 may recall I converted my 20B over from pan oil injection to using=20 premix.

 

The = main issue is=20 the amount of 2-cycle oil that is ending up in the oil pan.  = When=20 mixing 1 oz/gal I found the  pan oil level had gone up by about = 1 =BD=20 quarts (from 6 =BD to 8) in about 15 hours of flying; and my nice = clear-amber=20 15-50 synthetic had become the dark blue-black color of the = SuperTech=20 2-cycle oil. Doing the math suggests that about 1/3 of the pre-mix = oil is=20 ending up in the pan.  That seems way out of line, and although = a=20 suspect it is not harmful to the engine, I don't think it the best = lube for=20 the re-drive.  I changed the oil and reduced the amount of = pre-mix to =BE=20 oz per gallon.  I'll be surprised if there isn't still some = 2-cycle oil=20 going into the pan.

 

So. . ; = suggestions?  Use different brand 2-cycle?  Further reduce = pre-mix=20 amount?

 

I'm = wondering if=20 the fact that my cruise coolant temp is now running around 150F = would result=20 in more of the pre-mix to condense out than if it was running at = maybe=20 180F.

 

Another = thing I=20 notice is a small amount of fuel is coming out of the fuel = vent.  The=20 only explanation I can come up with is foaming/bubbles forming in = the return=20 line after the pressure regulator.  This goes into the 3-gallon = sump=20 tank and up the =BC" vent line.  This may have been occurring = previously,=20 and the fuel evaporated as it went back along the surface; but now = the blue=20 2-cycle oil is left behind to be quite visible at the back of the = cowl; but=20 I suspect the pre-mix is exacerbating the foaming. =

 

I = notice the=20 plugs have less carbon than before, and the inside of the exhaust = exit is=20 now very light grey.

 

Al


--
Homepage:= =20  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


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