X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.3) with ESMTP id 2982560 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:45:28 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.54; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from fwebmail07.isp.att.net ([204.127.218.107]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20080624154448H040099mv9e>; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:44:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.218.107] Received: from [64.250.200.42] by fwebmail07.isp.att.net; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:44:48 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Turbo burned up Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:44:48 +0000 Message-Id: <062420081544.1999.4861166E00092638000007CF22230706129B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Jun 10 2008) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Scott, Curious to know if the .61 A/R is the turbine housing A/R ?..........I have heard the opinion that a A/R of closer to1.0 or more might be better for our a/c use to prevent over speed at altitude (John Slade just reported his turbine A/R is .96)..........John has 50+ hours on his TO4..........I do not remember hearing how many hours Greg Richter had on his TO4 before going pure jet.........Paul Yaw (Arizona Rotary Engine Guru) even recommended a turbine A/R up to 1.3 on info I have seen........Your .61 A/R will definitely spool up faster (That is why automobile turbos have the lower A/Rs (to reduce turbo lag on acceleration) but may tend to over speed at high altitude.........The nice thing about it is that turbine housings with a different A/R are available for retrofit and relatively inexpensive...........Your installation sounds well thought out........Looking forward to seeing photos...........FWIW -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold -------------- Original message from SHIPCHIEF@aol.com: -------------- Dave; Sorry to hear about the Turbo... I ran my engine again today after working on air guidance for the oil and radiator outlets. I'm running a Turbonetics symetrical TO-4 turbine with Inconel turbine wheel. It has a 60-1 compressor, P trim and .61 A/R. I hope it will withstand the heat. Greg Richter was using the same when he had a 13b in his cozy. I talked to him one day (so long ago) and he reccomended it, so that's what I got. I suggested some model of waste gate and blow off valve, but he said to forget about it unless operating it indicated a need. I built up the exhaust manifold from two 2.5" .060 wall 321ss elbows curved up to the turbo flange in a short fat 'Y' to hold the turbo close to the engine. Then I welded in 2" to 1.75" nozzles in the engine flange ehaust ports to keep the exhaust blast away from the flange welds to the 2.5" tubes that support the turbo weight. I added two 1/2" ss straps between the flang tops for 'suspenders'. So far I have only run up to about 3500 rpm because I don't trust myself or the strap tying the tailwheel spring to a cedar tree. My highest exhaust temp is already over 1200 F. I'm using a CATTO 2 blade left hand equivalent for a 180 Hp O-360 prop. We figure it will be right for the test flights and absorb 200 Hp @ 2900 RPM. Any more power would be risky for the RD-1A gearbox, so I have not added an intercooler yet either. I'm waiting for the summer air show season to get over before I send the ECM and EM to Tracy to figure out why they dont talk to each other...He's bound to be busy now, and I can still run my engine to test cooling and other issues, what ever they may turn up to be. I tried to post pictures of my turbo setup on the FLYROTARY list, but they didn't go thru. How do I reduce the size of picture to file the file limit? Oh, and you can upgrade my file on your rotary roster to 'ground running'. Regards; Scott PS I would like to suggest that all of you post something about your ROTARY project on YOUTUBE and add FLYROTARY to the title or keyword list, then we can all quickly identify video posted by one of "our own". ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scott,
  Curious to know if the .61 A/R is the turbine housing A/R ?....= ......I have heard the opinion
that a A/R of closer to1.0 or more might be better for our a/c use to = prevent over speed at
altitude (John Slade just reported his turbine A/R is .96)..........Jo= hn has 50+ hours on his
TO4..........I do not remember hearing how many hours Greg Richter had= on his TO4 before
going pure jet.........Paul Yaw (Arizona Rotary Engine Guru) even = ;recommended  a turbine
A/R up to 1.3 on info I have seen........Your .61 A/R will defini= tely spool up faster (That is
why automobile turbos have the lower A/Rs (to reduce turbo lag on acce= leration) but may
tend to over speed at high altitude.........The nice thing about it is= that turbine housings with
a different A/R are available for retrofit and relatively inexpen= sive...........Your installation
sounds well thought out........Looking forward to seeing photos.......= ....FWIW   
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from SHIPCHIEF@aol.com: ----= ----------

Dave;
  Sorry to hear = about the Turbo...
  I ran my engine again today after working on a= ir guidance for the oil and radiator outlets.
I'm running a Turbonetics = symetrical TO-4 turbine with Inconel turbine wheel. It has a 60-1 compresso= r, P trim and .61 A/R. I hope it will withstand the heat.
  Greg Ri= chter was using the same when he had a 13b in his cozy. I talked to him one= day (so long ago) and he reccomended it, so that's what I got. I suggested= some model of waste gate and blow off valve, but he said to forget about i= t unless operating it indicated a need.
  I built up the exhaust ma= nifold from two 2.5" .060 wall 321ss elbows curved up to the turbo flange i= n a short fat 'Y' to hold the turbo close to the engine. Then I welded in 2= " to 1.75" nozzles in the engine flange ehaust ports to keep the exhaust bl= ast away from the flange welds to the 2.5" tubes that support the turbo wei= ght. I added two 1/2" ss straps between the flang tops for 'suspenders'. So far I have only run up to about 3500 rpm because I don't trust myself = or the strap tying the tailwheel spring to a cedar tree. My highest exhaust= temp is already over 1200 F.
I'm using a CATTO 2 blade left hand equiva= lent for a 180 Hp O-360 prop. We figure it will be right for the test fligh= ts and absorb 200 Hp @ 2900 RPM. Any more power would be risky for the RD-1= A gearbox, so I have not added an intercooler yet either.
I'm waiting fo= r the summer air show season to get over before I send the ECM and EM to Tr= acy to figure out why they dont talk to each other...He's bound to be busy = now, and I can still run my engine to test cooling and other issues, what e= ver they may turn up to be.
I tried to post pictures=20of my turbo setup= on the FLYROTARY list, but they didn't go thru. How do I reduce the size o= f  picture to file the file limit?
Oh, and you can upgrade my file = on your rotary roster to 'ground running'.
Regards;
Scott
PS I wou= ld like to suggest that all of you post something about your ROTARY project= on YOUTUBE and add FLYROTARY to the title or keyword list, then we can all= quickly identify video posted by one of "our own".


*****= *********
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficie= nt used cars.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=3Daolaut00050000000007) --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_1-- --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_1999_1214322288_0--