X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2779773 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:52:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080306125122.MHEG25331.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:51:22 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c87f88$cdaa0290$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:51:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C87F5E.E48EDB40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C87F5E.E48EDB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is smooth, Bill. But, I did have the prop dynamically balanced with = the engine running. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users How smooth is it, Ed? =20 Bill=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Bill, I don't have a Renesis nor a Cato prop. However, I do have a = Performance 74x88 prop with a 2.85:1 gear box and a 91 turbo block (sans = turbo) 13B. =20 I get 6000 rpm Static and up to 6200 static on a cold day. My MSL is = 565 ft. =20 The Renesis should give you about that with your larger prop and = more HP assuming you have the 2.85:1, if you hve the 2.17:1 gear box = then the mid to upper 5000 rpm is what I would expect once tuned up. =20 FWIW =20 Ed =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users =20 I started the engine after I installed the circuit and ran it for a = few minutes just to see if I had screwed something up in the install. = My initial impression is that the hesitation is gone and the engine runs = much smoother. The A/F ratio seems to be more stable as well. I am = working on my cowling at the present time, but as soon as I finish, I = will try and get the engine tuned up and we will see how it runs. =20 By the way, I don't have a clue as to what to expect when doing a = max static rpm run. I saw on the list the other day where someone with = a similar set up, (Renesis, 76 X 88 prop Cato where mine is Performance) = was getting 6000 static at a density altitude of 6000 ft and manifold = pressure of ~22 inches. My field is at 55 feet. I haven't done any = density altitude calculations, but it is going to be close to sea level. = I am getting about 5300 at about 30 inches. Does anyone have an opinion about how these numbers might compare? = I haven't tried to tune it yet, but it seems to me that the rpms should = be closer. =20 I also am getting a pretty good vibration when I run it up. During = the above test, for example, I could hardly read my altimeter for the = vibration of the needle. I am expecting smoothness with the Renesis. = Could this be due to the tuning? I spoke with Clark Lydick. The prop = could be the problem, but it is probably not more likely than something = else. =20 Opinions?? =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users The high speed miss/backfire (which can be very violent) is the = symptom you might expect to go away in your case. The hesitation is = probably unrelated. For that you probably need to richen the mixture at = the point where the engine is running prior to the throttle advance. =20 Note that if the engine is leaned out for best economy (using the = manual mix control) and you then come down without setting the mixture = to 'normal', the hesitation is likely. This is the same as you might = get on a Lycoming in the same situation. Always set the mixture to = moderately rich after descending or in the pattern. =20 There are several other things that can cause hesitation as well but = I don't have enough info to say what your's might be. The unstable mixture might be related but again, not enough info to = go on. =20 Tracy On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Tracy,=20 Could you please elaborate a little about some of the symptoms that = you have heard or know about that this will cure? My Renesis starts = fine, but I get some rough running at speed. I have had backfire once. = Also, when I advance the throttle, the engine does a large hesitation = before it takes off in a quick rev. Like a car might if it didn't have = an accelerator pump. My air/fuel indication seems to be unstable also at speed. Is that = related? =20 I put the circuit together this afternoon and will install it, but I = am wondering what symptoms I might expect to go away.=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Bill B -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 1:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor users Forgot to explain how to connect it. The two leads are to be = connected directly across the two leads of the Renesis crank sensor. It = can be installed near the sensor, near the EC2 or anywhere in between, = whatever is easiest. It is not polarized so it doesn't matter which = terminator lead goes to which sensor lead. On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Tracy Crook = wrote: After completing a study of my 20B problems associated with the = Renesis trigger wheel and sensor, I am recommending that all users of = these parts along with an EC2 engine controller install the sensor = termination circuit shown on the attached drawing. =20 The Renesis sensor has different enough characteristics from the 2nd = gen sensor that it needs this circuit to properly match it. It replaces = the 1000 ohm resistor that some may have already installed. This = addresses both the starting problem and the high rpm miss that have = occurred in some installations. Tracy=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C87F5E.E48EDB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is smooth, Bill.  But, I did have the = prop=20 dynamically balanced with the engine running.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 = 9:40=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank=20 sensor users

How smooth is it, = Ed?

 

Bill 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 = 9:07=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank=20 sensor users

Bill, I don't have a = Renesis nor a=20 Cato prop.  However, I do have a Performance 74x88 prop with a = 2.85:1=20 gear box and a 91 turbo block (sans turbo)=20 13B.

 

I get 6000 rpm Static = and up to=20 6200 static on a cold day.  My MSL is 565=20 ft.

 

The Renesis should give = you =20 about that with your  larger prop and more HP  assuming = you=20 have the 2.85:1, if you hve the 2.17:1 gear box then the mid to upper = 5000 rpm=20 is what I would expect once tuned = up.

 

FWIW

 

Ed

 

 

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Bill=20 Bradburry

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis crank sensor=20 users

 

I started the engine after I installed the = circuit=20 and ran it for a few minutes just to see if I had screwed something = up in=20 the install.  My initial impression is that the hesitation is = gone and=20 the engine runs much smoother.  The A/F ratio seems to be more = stable=20 as well.  I am working on my cowling at the present time, but = as soon=20 as I finish, I will try and get the engine tuned up and we will see = how it=20 runs.

 

By the way, I don=92t have a clue as to = what to expect=20 when doing a max static rpm run.  I saw on the list the other = day where=20 someone with a similar set up, (Renesis, 76 X 88 prop Cato where = mine is=20 Performance) was getting 6000 static at a density altitude of 6000 = ft and=20 manifold pressure of ~22 inches.  My field is at 55 feet.  = I=20 haven=92t done any density altitude calculations, but it is going to = be close=20 to sea level.  I am getting about 5300 at about 30=20 inches.

Does anyone have an opinion about how = these numbers=20 might compare?   I haven=92t tried to tune it yet, but it = seems to=20 me that the rpms should be closer.

 

I also am getting a pretty good vibration = when I run=20 it up.  During the above test, for example, I could hardly read = my=20 altimeter for the vibration of the needle.  I am expecting = smoothness=20 with the Renesis.  Could this be due to the tuning?  I = spoke with=20 Clark Lydick.  The prop could be the problem, but it is = probably not=20 more likely than something else.

 

Opinions??

 

Bill B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, = 2008 7:42=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank=20 sensor users

The high speed miss/backfire (which can be = very=20 violent) is the symptom you might expect to go away in your = case.  The=20 hesitation is probably unrelated.  For that you probably need = to richen=20 the mixture at the point where the engine is running prior to the = throttle=20 advance.

 

Note that if the engine is leaned out for = best=20 economy (using the manual mix control) and you then come down = without=20 setting the mixture to 'normal', the hesitation is = likely.   This=20 is the same as you might get on a Lycoming in the same = situation. =20 Always set the mixture to moderately rich after descending or = in the=20 pattern.

 

There are several other things that can = cause=20 hesitation as well but I don't have enough info to say what your's = might=20 be.

The unstable mixture might be related but = again, not=20 enough info to go on.

 

Tracy

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 5:51 PM, = Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= =20 wrote:

Tracy,=20

Could=20 you please elaborate a little about some of the symptoms that you = have heard=20 or know about that this will cure?  My Renesis starts fine, but = I get=20 some rough running at speed.  I have had backfire once.  = Also,=20 when I advance the throttle, the engine does a large hesitation = before it=20 takes off in a quick rev.  Like a car might if it didn't have = an=20 accelerator pump.

My=20 air/fuel indication seems to be unstable also at speed.  Is = that=20 related?

 

I put=20 the circuit together this afternoon and will install it, but I am = wondering=20 what symptoms I might expect to go=20 away=85 

 

Thanks,

 

Bill=20 B

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy = Crook
Sent: Thursday, February 28, = 2008 1:15=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis crank=20 sensor users

Forgot to explain how to connect it.  = The two=20 leads are to be connected directly across the two leads of the = Renesis crank=20 sensor.  It can be installed near the sensor, near the EC2 or = anywhere=20 in between, whatever is easiest.   It is not polarized = so it=20 doesn't matter which terminator lead goes to which sensor=20 lead.

On Thu,=20 Feb 28, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Tracy Crook <tracy@rotaryaviation.com>=20 wrote:

After=20 completing a study of my 20B problems associated with the Renesis = trigger=20 wheel and sensor,  I am recommending that all users of these = parts=20 along with an EC2 engine controller install the sensor termination = circuit=20 shown on the attached drawing.

 

The=20 Renesis sensor has different = enough characteristics from the=20 2nd gen sensor that it needs this circuit to properly match = it.  It=20 replaces the 1000 ohm resistor that some may have already=20 installed.   This addresses both the starting problem and = the high=20 rpm miss that have occurred in some=20 installations.

Tracy =

 

 

 

 

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