X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2725242 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:54:48 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.56; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.59]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oLbC1Y0011GhbT85603B00; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:53:55 +0000 Received: from gregoryii ([24.6.40.29]) by OMTA07.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oLu71Y0010dkeQQ3T00000; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:54:08 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=OyxxwDEEPAglTJMM0m8A:9 a=FEpYXZPuqJV_86kD6csA:7 a=iSP-qtkZRMeOdMAONCUTizy-9kAA:4 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=IplYkR0A5a8A:10 a=9M3DAB5Bs7sA:10 a=MInBT2ynV54A:10 a=d46lUuF_AAAA:8 a=ARuy8iuaf1j20DgI4XIA:9 a=9JjXCgc9jBnlTN4ahqEA:7 a=Jezb4AaGU6fPn-8fW9Q1ns8x6TEA:4 a=Eeo2JzNa0KcA:10 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <008701c86cf0$62448e30$8801a8c0@yosemite.onestopdesign.biz> From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:55:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01C86CAD.534F7F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C86CAD.534F7F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Willdo Robert.... Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rob=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:39 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Greg, Please keep us informed about the manifold maker. I need one for my = 20B also. BD-4 with 20B. Robert Robert Bollinger FM1099 MUM Fairfield, IA 52557 rob@mum.edu =20 Home (641)472-7000ex2068 Cell (641)919-3213 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:51 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at take-off, and I won't be = using the stock turbos. I'm being told that the TO4 that John Slade is = using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what the next step = up is. There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that are = supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see. I think limiting it = to 6000 rpm makes total sense. Anyhow, heading to the shop for a = grinding session, have a great day!! Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:43 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real question = is will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is designed to = handle that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They are turboing = the 20B engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 for short = periods he should be fine, If he has an adaquate drive. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Greg Ward wrote:=20 >=20 > O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting = in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" = series on a palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had in = the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on this = thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, = coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came with it. = My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me = this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who race this = motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up. I = have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on take = -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no = idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They are saying = that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost = at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this = thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am asking so little = from this engine.=20 >=20 > This will get us started;=20 > Greg=20 > Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are three = questions you have to ask yourself:=20 =20 - Can I reliably pull that many horses out of the motor for hours = on end?=20 - Can I carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for = hours on end?=20 - Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that many horses = out of it?=20 =20 It's been demonstrated on this list several times that not = everything from racing translates directly to airplanes. For instance, = 400Hp will require twice the radiator volume that most of us are using, = along with the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. Will the = reduction in reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by the = extra speed once the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are = factored in? ie, you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp" = would imply, because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers have = to worry about that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that = just cost you more to go to only relatively close places faster.=20 =20 --=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C86CAD.534F7F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Willdo Robert....
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rob
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 = 10:39=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

Greg,
Please keep us informed about the = manifold maker.=20 I need one for my 20B also.
BD-4 with 20B.
Robert
Robert Bollinger
FM1099 MUM
Fairfield, IA 52557
rob@mum.edu 
Home=20 (641)472-7000ex2068
Cell     = (641)919-3213
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg=20 Ward
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, February 11, = 2008 10:51=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at = take-off,=20 and I won't be using the stock turbos.  I'm being told that the = TO4=20 that John Slade is using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am = researching=20 what the next step up is.  There is also a guy in LA that = builds=20 manifolds that are supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll = see. =20 I think limiting it to 6000 rpm makes total sense.  Anyhow, = heading to=20 the shop for a grinding session, have a great day!!
Greg
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, February 11, = 2008 8:43=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fuel=20 burn

Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The = real=20 question is will the Redrive? The only source for a drive = that is=20 designed to handle that type of power is the Mistral planetary. = They are=20 turboing the 20B engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses = 400 for=20 short periods he should be fine, If he has an adaquate = drive.
Bill=20 Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest = Christley=20 <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 = am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn

Greg=20 Ward wrote: 
> 
> O.K., time to throw a = little F=20 matter into the fan. I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair = Legacy=20 RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette. I got the = engine=20 complete with everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of. = There=20 isn't even a coat of grease on this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, = air=20 conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and = about 100=20 pounds of extra stuff came with it. My buddy (he has been selling = engines=20 for 15 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in = constant=20 contact with people who race this motor, and I am getting a lot of = input=20 on how to set this thing up. I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, = and plan=20 on generating 400 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My = max rpm=20 will be 8000. You have no idea how much input I am getting from = the racing=20 set. They are saying that with a variable boost (electronic) = controller, I=20 can vary the boost at any given altitude, as much or as little as = I want,=20 and tweak this thing for max performance. They can't believe that = I am=20 asking so little from this engine. 
> 
> = This will=20 get us started; 
> Greg 
> Greg, I don't = want to=20 rain on your parade, but there are three questions you have to ask = yourself: 
 
- Can I reliably pull that many = horses out of=20 the motor for hours on end? 
- Can I carry enough fuel to = support=20 pulling that many horses for hours on end? 
- Can I keep = the=20 engine from melting while pull that many horses out of=20 it? 
 
It's been demonstrated on this list several = times=20 that not everything from racing translates directly to airplanes. = For=20 instance, 400Hp will require twice the radiator volume that most = of us are=20 using, along with the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. = Will the=20 reduction in reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by = the extra=20 speed once the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are = factored=20 in? ie, you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp" = would=20 imply, because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers have = to=20 worry about that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that = just=20 cost you more to go to only relatively close places=20 faster. 
 
-- 
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
Archive and = UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL=20 Mail!
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