X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2604056 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:42:24 -0500 Received-SPF: softfail receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.102.122.148; envelope-from=echristley@nc.rr.com Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Dec 2007 15:41:36 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lBIKfaCV005030 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:41:36 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id lBIKfVvF022547 for ; Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:41:35 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:41:27 -0500 Received: from [64.102.38.143] ([64.102.38.143]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:41:27 -0500 Message-ID: <4768307F.8090206@nc.rr.com> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:41:35 -0500 From: Ernest Christley Reply-To: echristley@nc.rr.com User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14pre (X11/20071023) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Supercharging References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Dec 2007 20:41:27.0285 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C8FF250:01C841B6] Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=echristley@nc.rr.com; dkim=neutral wrjjrs@aol.com wrote: > Ernest, No that isn't true. I agree that any supercharging method > certainly adds complication. The MAJOR difference is that a > SUPERcharger, rather than a turbo requires additional careful > engineering to enable the DRIVE for the blower to survive. A turbo > must be mounted itself, but the drive is simple, even if the plumbing > isn't. > Cheers, > Bill > Ed Anderson wrote: > Depending on the compressor type used on the supercharger your > efficiency can drop down to below 50% (some of the older roots type > expellers) , the centrifugal compressors (which can be on super or > turbochargers) are generally higher efficiency (can approach 75%) in > converting input energy into high pressure air. So a bit more efficient. I'm going to sidestep Ed's argument about using energy before or after it has been converted to mechanical energy, because just thinking about it is making my head hurt. Instead, I'll move on to the type of blower and it's mounting. I spoke about this at the Rotary Roundup a couple of years ago. Tom is just about through with machining the parts, and I'm about through building my fuselage, so I should have real hardware to test with "Real Soon Now"(TM). The rotary is unique among aircraft engines, in that we have 6000 shaft RPM to work with. Normally, that is considered a liability, in that it requires an extra gearbox to drop the RPM to a range usable by a propeller; but, supercharging is a case where I believe we can make some lemonade. 6000RPM is about the speed that commercial leaf blowers use. The blowers just happen to be about the same size as an engine housing. A conservative blower will easily deliver 600 CFM at 150MPH. We don't usually want a LOT of boost in an airplane, since that will impact reliability, but how much is a LOT? The typical supercharger is heavy, requiring some major engineering to produce a reliable mount and drive system. A turbo carries its own list of issues, not the least of which is blowing the intake air across a hot exhaust component. A blower, mounted as an integral part of the flywheel and enclosed by the bell housing, would sidestep most of the problems. It won't deliver a LOT of boost, but neither will it require pop-off valves, waste-gates, intercoolers or a heavy mounting system. I will consider it a win, if I can get 200Hp at 7000RPM. Richard Sohn asked me at the Round-up about how would I know if it works. I had to think about that one. The answer is that I will provide for an alternate air intake (at least temporarily). I will do a pull test, while running the engine with air being pulled through the blower and through the alternate air intake. The blower will have to be shuttered in the second test to insure it doesn't rob energy from the system. That won't give me raw horsepower, but it will give me a solid ratio of power difference between the two. Any ideas on what I should do, not do, or do differently? I'm still technically in the planning stages, so I would appreciate any and all input.