X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.233.178.244] (HELO hs-out-2122.google.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2601280 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:09:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.178.244; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by hs-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id k27so1447013hsc.3 for ; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=am1INUXG3cUt//4VSib+tPvhUAgpP8tkwvytj6Wvs0w=; b=AZRsY5wlPFP1uYVAplJFtnxvnsFNm65wHZfy8VnXs8/H5LInAg65FlRh1gTkiI/5dxbDjdugTsHoEkwbfSuB5kloIruK+qyP/ZHLrQw31vkBhL7VusDTsd7maSsW6w9LcAzKR4AnL9/MSmyjyP17tpR4k9fs4KeLu7PAWZCBmSY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FMRVHdIUf74/zIE24cZHTN5XEu4OE5kkMPwogaKvVxb8d8QwPxJMNFgIcT+T4TlrLhMILzr9jzM8aaCPXKToL4Nk6DIwO7DB+aCfTEDtf7m8zXJehZEbdeqEfHFBjMzTPmkviFYwF8NfqHs25nLkMZuvotACdRH8K8/zC+mE0ng= Received: by 10.150.178.6 with SMTP id a6mr2120346ybf.91.1197853717338; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.146.16 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:08:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5cf132c0712161708u3f3b51a8y3d30db9655f44fdd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:08:37 -0600 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC-2 troubles In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2315_5418190.1197853717331" References: ------=_Part_2315_5418190.1197853717331 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Al, That sounds like a lot to go through, but if it solves the problem, I'm game. But I hope my "solution" is a bit simpler. I find it strange that I didn't have this problem until I switched to the solid state relay. I'm tempted to switch them out and see if the problem goes away. No, I don't have diodes on the power leads to the EC-2, or to the coils or injectors. I may need to talk to you concerning where to put the various capacitors, etc. Is there any one item that you feel would carry the highest likelihood of being the culprit? Thanks, Mark On Dec 16, 2007 6:50 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: > Mark; > > > > Yes; been there, done that. Seems unlikely to me that it is caused by th= e > solid state relay, but . .. . I have a standard relay for staging, and ha= ve > always had seamless staging and no issues with that; but I had serious > issues with corruption of settings =96 MAP table, pulse setting, staging = point > all corrupted at various times. Wiring changes to eliminate possible noi= se > pickup from other leads seemed to help, but didn't solve it. > > > > Finally added the following changes to the board: > > > > 1000pf capacitors were added to: > > > > All fuel injector signals > > All ignition control signals > > RX input > > TX output > > > > 47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each processor > > > > Pin 8 of connector is now grounded. > > Pin 28 of connector is now grounded. > > > > That solved the problem for me. As we were making these changes and > analyzing causes, both my son (my expert) and Tracy began to think that t= hat > isolation diodes I have in the power circuits, to the EC2 and the injecto= rs > and coils, to maintain independent power redundancy; likely exaggerated t= he > problem by not letting noise travel back to the battery (the big filter). > We never confirmed this; but likely you would not have to go to the same > lengths in filtering if you did not have diode isolation of the circuits. > > > > Four more hours of flight time this week =96 just past 75 hours. Real ha= ppy > with my cruise at 200 mph (TAS) and 22 mpg. > > > > Al (Velocity RG 20B) > > > To refresh your memory, I recently installed the solid state staging rela= y > on my 20B Lancair ES. When doing the install, I didn't reinstall the dio= de > (to ground). During a short test flight after installing the solid state > relay, the map table got corrupted. I wrote for your advice and you > instructed me to connect the diode. I reinstalled the diode to the stagi= ng > relay and went for a short 30 minute flight today. The "A" map table aga= in > got corrupted. Switching to the "B" controller resulted in a smooth runn= ing > engine. After landing, I entered the EM-2 tracking mode and it was obvio= us > that the "A" map table was again corrupted. I have not reloaded the > default map, in case you would like to take a picture of the EM-2 display= of > the map table. > > These are the only two instances of this happening that I can recall, bot= h > cases happened after I installed the solid state injector staging relay. > Could the relay possibly be related? > > Also, I understand that others with composite a/c have had problems > similar to this (sporatic corruption of the MAP table). Have you been ab= le > to determine a common cause? Any suggestions? > > I am posting this to the fly rotary group in hopes that someone on the > list may have already "been there, done that". > > Thanks, > Mark S. > > > > > ------=_Part_2315_5418190.1197853717331 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Al,

That sounds like a lot to go through, but if it solves the prob= lem, I'm game.  But I hope my "solution" is a bit simple= r.  I find it strange that I didn't have this problem until I swit= ched to the solid state relay.  I'm tempted to switch them out and= see if the problem goes away. =20

No, I don't have diodes on the power leads to the EC-2, or to t= he coils or injectors.  I may need to talk to you concerning where to = put the various capacitors, etc.   Is there any one item that you= feel would carry the highest likelihood of being the culprit? =20

Thanks,
Mark

On Dec 16, 2007 6= :50 PM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox= .net> wrote:

Mark;

 

Yes; been there, done that.&nb= sp; Seems unlikely to me that it is caused by the solid state relay, but . .. . I hav= e a standard relay for staging, and have always had seamless staging and no iss= ues with that; but I had serious issues with corruption of settings =96 MAP tab= le, pulse setting, staging point all corrupted at various times.  Wiring changes to eliminate possible noise pickup from other leads seemed to help,= but didn't solve it.

 

Finally added the following ch= anges to the board:

 

1000pf capacitors were added to:<= /p>

 

All fuel injector signals

All ignition control signals

RX input

TX output

 

47uf, 16V tantalum were added to each processor

 

Pin 8 of connector is now grounded.

Pin 28 of connector is now grounded.

 

That solved the problem for me.   As we were making these changes and = analyzing causes, both my son (my expert) and Tracy began to think that that isolatio= n diodes I have in the power circuits, to the EC2 and the injectors and coils= , to maintain independent power redundancy; likely exaggerated the problem by no= t letting noise travel back to the battery (the big filter).  We never confirmed this; but likely you would not have to go to the sam e lengt= hs in filtering if you did not have diode isolation of the circuits.

 

Four more hours of flight time this week =96 just past 75 hours.  Real happy with my cruise at 200 mph (TAS) and 22 mpg.

 

Al   &nb= sp;     ( Velocity RG 20B)


To refresh your memory, I recently installed the solid state staging relay on my 20B Lancair ES.  When doing the install, I didn= 9;t reinstall the diode (to ground).  During a short test flight after installing the solid state relay, the map table got corrupted.  I wrot= e for your advice and you instructed me to connect the diode.  I reinsta= lled the diode to the staging relay and went for a short 30 minute flight today.  The "A" map table again got corrupted.  Switchi= ng to the "B" controller resulted in a smooth running engine.  After landing, I entered the EM-2 tracking mode and it was obvious that the "A" map table was again corrupted.   I have not reloade= d the default map, in case you would like to take a picture of the EM-2 displ= ay of the map table.

These are the only two instances of this happening that I can recall, both cases happened after I installed the solid state injector staging relay.&nb= sp; Could the relay possibly be related? 

Also, I understand that others with composite a/c have had problems similar= to this (sporatic corruption of the MAP table).  Have you been able to determine a common cause?  Any suggestions? 

I am posting this to the fly rotary group in hopes that someone on the list= may have already "been there, done that". 

Thanks,
Mark S.



 


------=_Part_2315_5418190.1197853717331--