X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from vms173003pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.3] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2574855 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:41:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.3; envelope-from=expressben@verizon.net Received: from ben22d25bef6f7 ([71.173.0.222]) by vms173003.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JSU0001GJSTFIP0@vms173003.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:38:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:40:45 -0500 From: "Ben Baltrusaitis" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Methods of charge cooling was Water/Meth injection To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Message-id: <003301c83b5c$2e320840$2f01a8c0@ben22d25bef6f7> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01C83B32.43D51220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071209-0, 12/09/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean References: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C83B32.43D51220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Bill and Ed, I found it amazing what the Subaru dudes are doing with their street = engines! What is curious is the fact that common windshield washer fluid = was used for injection and the injection systems actually used the = windshield washer tank as the reservoir. They say they can get up to 4 = tanks of gas to one gallon of water/meth. I brought up the idea for the Rotary because of the hot exhaust problems = and for the fact that the apex seals cannot stand detonation. This can = be a good solution if progressive injection programming is used. The EFI = program needs to be adjusted to reduce fuel as water/meth is added. The = injection can be programmed to limit use by rpm or boost level. Regards, Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Schertz=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: 12/06/2007 7:40 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Methods of charge cooling was Water/Meth = injection Ben, Jack Morrison, at Aurora Airport is running methanol-water injection = in a supercharged IO-540 in an E-racer. It lowered his cylinder head and = EGT temperatures. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS (reserved) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Methods of charge cooling was Water/Meth = injection Ben, here is a URL that gives a number of different ways to cool the = intake charge. You may find it interesting = http://www.landracing.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_content&task=3Dview&id=3D= 24 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben Baltrusaitis=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:00 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Water/Meth injection I have moved away from the Rotary (shame on me) and toward the = Subaru. I have been researching how to get more torque and found the = only way is with boost. The street Subaru guys are injecting water and = methanol to avoid detonation under high boost--getting 450 hp from 2.5 = liters. The methanol and water cool the charge while the methanol also = increases the octane. This allows them to run 89 or 91 octane fuel under = low boost w/o injection and have high octane-high boost with injection. = The injection is set to start at a certain boost pressure or rpm level. I am going to go this route in my aerobatic biplane so I can run = on cheap fuel in econo cruise and still not detonate while doing full = throttle aerobatics. One of the side benefits of this injection is lower EGTs--as much = as 400 degrees. Has anyone done any testing with water injection to = lower EGTs? Another benefit is much cleaner combustion chambers. That sounds = useful to me, too. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3D937176 http://www.slowboyracing.com/estore/home.php?cat=3D4559 Ben=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: = 12/5/2007 9:29 PM ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C83B32.43D51220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Bill and Ed,
I found it amazing what the Subaru dudes are doing with their = street=20 engines! What is curious is the fact that common windshield washer fluid = was=20 used for injection and the injection systems actually used the = windshield washer=20 tank as the reservoir. They say they can get up to 4 tanks of gas to one = gallon=20 of water/meth.
 
I brought up the idea for the Rotary because of the hot exhaust = problems=20 and for the fact that the apex seals cannot stand detonation. This can = be a good=20 solution if progressive injection programming is used. The EFI program = needs to=20 be adjusted to reduce fuel as water/meth is added. The injection can be=20 programmed to limit use by rpm or boost level.
Regards,
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Schertz
Sent: 12/06/2007 7:40 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Methods of=20 charge cooling was Water/Meth injection

Ben,
Jack Morrison, at Aurora = Airport is=20 running methanol-water injection in a supercharged IO-540 in an = E-racer. It=20 lowered his cylinder head and EGT temperatures.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, = 2007 7:01=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Methods = of charge=20 cooling was Water/Meth injection

Ben, here is a URL = that gives a=20 number of different ways to cool the intake charge.  You may = find it=20 interesting
 
http://www.landracing.com/index.php?option=3Dcom_con= tent&task=3Dview&id=3D24
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Ben=20 Baltrusaitis
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, = 2007 3:00=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Water/Meth=20 injection

I have moved away from the Rotary (shame on me) and toward = the=20 Subaru. I have been researching how to get more torque and found = the only=20 way is with boost. The street Subaru guys are injecting water and = methanol=20 to avoid detonation under high boost--getting 450 hp from 2.5 = liters. The=20 methanol and water cool the charge while the methanol = also increases=20 the octane. This allows them to run 89 or 91 octane fuel under low = boost=20 w/o injection and have high octane-high boost with injection. The=20 injection is set to start at a certain boost pressure or rpm = level.
 
I am going to go this route in my aerobatic biplane so I can = run on=20 cheap fuel in econo cruise and still not detonate while doing full = throttle aerobatics.
 
One of the side benefits of this injection is lower EGTs--as = much as=20 400 degrees. Has anyone done any testing with water injection to = lower=20 EGTs?
 
Another benefit is much cleaner combustion = chambers. That sounds=20 useful to me, too.
 
http:/= /forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3D937176
 
http://w= ww.slowboyracing.com/estore/home.php?cat=3D4559
 
Ben 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free = Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - = Release Date:=20 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
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