X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2431220 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:51:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071024195058.QGOG3242.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:50:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c81676$ee585ee0$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:49:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81655.66E760D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81655.66E760D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your welcome, David. My impression (at that is all it is ) is that = alternators supposedly designed/modified for aircraft use seem to have = more problems that standard Auto alternators. I know Van's RVs had a = model that was an auto alternator modified for an external regulator and = there was quite a thread on problems with them. Never listened long = enough to find out what the problem was though. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: hoursaway1@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 3:37 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry Thanks Ed, my thoughts were the same, I work as an auto tech at a = Cadillac dealer, specialize in auto trans & computer controlled sys., = put a Tech II diog. tool on my wife's Deville & my Chevy PU, drove the = heck out of them, then down loaded the info to PC (more mem. & power in = PC) then spread the info out & graphed it so I could see milliseconds = looking for fast spikes in voltage or drops (vacant areas). It was very = accurately controlled, (I was told that some aircraft radios were very = voltage sensitive & that was my only concern, not any longer). Thanks = again Ed, I'll let you all get back to the correct topic of this thread, = I wish we had weighed our eng. assem. before perm. mounting, will be = weighing aircraft soon. David RV-6A Rotary. -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Ed Anderson" =20 David, I initially set it up (wired it) so I could add an external = alternator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow with the same = alternator for 10 years using the internal regulator without a problem. = I never added the external regulator. In all the years, I have had automobiles with internally regulated = alternators, I have had a very few fail, but none ever failed in a mode = to generate high voltage (always lower voltage). Certainly not to say = it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with the present arrangement. YMMV Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: hoursaway1@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry Ed;; The Mazda alt. that you are useing has the volt. reg. = internal, are you useing an external reg. also, I set up the harness for = an external to be added if needed, do not want to if not needed, how is = it working for you. Thanks, David Cook, RV-6A Rotary Lansing MI. = (getting close.) -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Ed Anderson" =20 > Don't beat yourself up about 400 lbs. While we all would like = to see our=20 > installations weigh in at 300 lbs - I have not yet seen any = credible figures=20 > showing that having happened. I think probably that Perry Mick = would come=20 > the closest when he was flying with no PSRU - just direct = drive.=20 >=20 > While my early inexperence with aircraft design led me to the = flawed "...if=20 > in doubt, make it stout."" philosphy - I just never realized = how quickly an=20 > ounce here and an ounce there would quickly add up to 170 lbs = overweight -=20 > did have 44 lbs of battery, but still heavy.=20 >=20 > In any case, to make you feel a bit better, here is the = breakout of my FWF=20 > installation 377 lbs dry and 406 wet.=20 >=20 >=20 > Ed=20 >=20 > Engine Data=20 >=20 > Manufacture: Mazda Model: Rotary 13B(6 Port) Serial No:=20 >=20 > Displacement: 80 CID Oil Pressure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi=20 >=20 > Rated H.P: 160 at 6500 RPM=20 >=20 > Weight:=20 >=20 > Dry=20 >=20 > Engine (core) 190 Lbs (Mazda 13B)=20 >=20 > Starter: 10 Lbs (Toyota Geared)=20 >=20 > Alternator: 9 Lbs (Mazda 70A)=20 >=20 > Ignition Coils Assembl: 7 Lbs (Mazda)=20 >=20 > Evaporator Cores (2): 7 Lbs (Fitted with AN-16 Threaded = fittings)=20 >=20 > Oil Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl's)=20 >=20 > Intake Manifold: 15 Lbs (Machined)=20 >=20 > Fule Injector Body: 3 Lbs (TWM)=20 >=20 > Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of 0.032 2034 Alum)=20 >=20 > Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs)=20 >=20 > Misc. Brakets, Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's Stainless = Steel=20 > Braid/Fittings)=20 >=20 > Exhaust 5 Lbs (Stainless Steel, D oes not include Muffler)=20 >=20 > Mufflers 16 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo 32" Length, = 2 Required, 8=20 > lbs each)=20 >=20 > PSRU RWS 2.85:1 42 lbs=20 >=20 > Propeller 18 lbs=20 >=20 > Motor mount 19 lbs=20 >=20 > Total (Dry): 377 Lbs=20 >=20 > Wet=20 >=20 > Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs=20 >=20 > Oil ( 6 Qts) 13 Lbs=20 >=20 > Total: 406 Lbs=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Scott"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:31 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry=20 >=20 >=20 > I finally reached a point when everything was mounted on the = engine and=20 > wanted to know the dry weight. It came in at around 350 = pounds.=20 >=20 > Add in a 3 blade IVO prop, oil, and coolant and I am at 400 = pounds...=20 >=20 > Needless to say that is not what I was ho p ing for as Zenith = lists their FWF=20 > for a wet O360 with a 2 blade metal prop at 400 pounds.=20 >=20 > What have others come it at for a dry weight for their 13b = setups?=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________=20 > Do You Yahoo!?=20 > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around = > http://mail.yahoo.com=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub:=20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C81655.66E760D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your welcome, David.  My impression (at = that  is=20 all it is ) is that alternators supposedly designed/modified for = aircraft=20 use seem to have more problems that standard Auto alternators.  I = know=20 Van's RVs  had a model that was an auto alternator modified for an = external=20 regulator and there was quite a thread on problems with them.  = Never=20 listened long enough to find out what the problem was = though.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 hoursaway1@comcast.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, = 2007 3:37=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 = lbs=20 dry

Thanks Ed, my thoughts were the same, I work as an auto = tech at=20 a Cadillac dealer, specialize in auto trans & computer controlled = sys.,=20 put a Tech II diog. tool on my wife's Deville & my Chevy PU, = drove=20 the heck out of them, then down loaded the info to PC (more mem. & = power=20 in PC) then spread the info out & graphed it so I could see=20 milliseconds looking for fast spikes in voltage or drops (vacant = areas). It=20 was very accurately controlled, (I was told that some aircraft radios = were=20 very voltage sensitive & that was my only concern, not any = longer). =20 Thanks again Ed, I'll let you all get back to the correct topic of = this=20 thread, I wish we had weighed our eng. assem. before perm. mounting, = will be=20 weighing aircraft soon.  David   RV-6A Rotary.
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: "Ed Anderson"=20 <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
David, I initially set it up (wired it) so I = could add=20 an external alternator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow = with the=20 same alternator for 10 years using the internal regulator without a=20 problem.  I never added the external regulator.
 
  In all the years, I have had = automobiles with=20 internally regulated alternators, I have had a very few fail, but = none ever=20 failed in a mode to generate high voltage (always lower = voltage). =20 Certainly not to say it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with = the=20 present arrangement.
 
YMMV
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 hoursaway1@comcast.net =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, October = 24, 2007=20 10:52 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 350 lbs=20 dry

Ed;; The Mazda alt. that you are useing has the volt. reg. = internal,=20 are you useing an external reg. also, I set up the harness for an = external=20 to be added if needed, do not want to if not needed, how is it = working for=20 you.  Thanks,  David Cook,  RV-6A Rotary Lansing = MI.=20 (getting close.)
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: "Ed Anderson"=20 <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>

> Don't beat = yourself up=20 about 400 lbs. While we all would like to see our
> = installations=20 weigh in at 300 lbs - I have not yet seen any credible figures =
>=20 showing that having happened. I think probably that Perry Mick = would=20 come
> the closest when he was flying with no PSRU - just = direct=20 drive.
>
> While my early inexperence with = aircraft design=20 led me to the flawed "...if
> in doubt, make it stout.""=20 philosphy - I just never realized how quickly an
> ounce = here and=20 an ounce there would quickly add up to 170 lbs overweight - =
> did=20 have 44 lbs of battery, but still heavy.
>
> In = any case,=20 to make you feel a bit better, here is the breakout of my FWF =
>=20 installation 377 lbs dry and 406 wet.
>
>
> = Ed=20
>
> Engine Data
>
> Manufacture: = Mazda=20 Model: Rotary 13B(6 Port) Serial No:
>
> = Displacement: 80=20 CID Oil Pressure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi
>
> Rated = H.P:=20 160 at 6500 RPM
>
> Weight:
>
> Dry =
>=20
> Engine (core) 190 Lbs (Mazda 13B)
>
> = Starter: 10=20 Lbs (Toyota Geared)
>
> Alternator: 9 Lbs (Mazda = 70A)=20
>
> Ignition Coils Assembl: 7 Lbs (Mazda)
> =
> Evaporator Cores (2): 7 Lbs (Fitted with AN-16 Threaded = fittings)
>
> Oil Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl's)
> =
>=20 Intake Manifold: 15 Lbs (Machined)
>
> Fule = Injector Body:=20 3 Lbs (TWM)
>
> Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of 0.032 = 2034=20 Alum)
>
> Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs) =
>=20
> Misc. Brakets, Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's = Stainless=20 Steel
> Braid/Fittings)
>
> Exhaust 5 Lbs=20 (Stainless Steel, D oes not include Muffler)
>
> = Mufflers=20 16 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo 32" Length, 2 Required, = 8=20
> lbs each)
>
> PSRU RWS 2.85:1 42 lbs =
>=20
> Propeller 18 lbs
>
> Motor mount 19 lbs =
>=20
> Total (Dry): 377 Lbs
>
> Wet
> =
>=20 Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs
>
> Oil ( 6 Qts) 13 Lbs =
>=20
> Total: 406 Lbs
>
> ----- Original Message = -----=20
> From: "Scott"
> To: "Rotary = motors=20 in aircraft"
> Sent: = Tuesday,=20 October 23, 2007 6:31 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs = dry=20
>
>
> I finally reached a point when = everything was=20 mounted on the engine and
> wanted to know the dry = weight. It=20 came in at around 350 pounds.
>
> Add in a 3 blade = IVO=20 prop, oil, and coolant and I am at 400 pounds...
> =
>=20 Needless to say that is not what I was ho p ing for as Zenith = lists=20 their FWF
> for a wet O360 with a 2 blade metal prop at = 400=20 pounds.
>
> What have others come it at for a dry = weight=20 for their 13b setups?
>
>
>
> =
>=20
> __________________________________________________ =
> Do=20 You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best = spam=20 protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> =
> --=20
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive = and UnSub:=20
> = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
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