X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2431034 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:47:03 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071024174625.KMYN2011.cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:46:25 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c81665$879647a0$2502a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:44:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C81644.00502A20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C81644.00502A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David, I initially set it up (wired it) so I could add an external = alternator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow with the same = alternator for 10 years using the internal regulator without a problem. = I never added the external regulator. In all the years, I have had automobiles with internally regulated = alternators, I have had a very few fail, but none ever failed in a mode = to generate high voltage (always lower voltage). Certainly not to say = it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with the present arrangement. YMMV Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: hoursaway1@comcast.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 10:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 lbs dry Ed;; The Mazda alt. that you are useing has the volt. reg. internal, = are you useing an external reg. also, I set up the harness for an = external to be added if needed, do not want to if not needed, how is it = working for you. Thanks, David Cook, RV-6A Rotary Lansing MI. = (getting close.) -------------- Original message --------------=20 From: "Ed Anderson" =20 > Don't beat yourself up about 400 lbs. While we all would like to = see our=20 > installations weigh in at 300 lbs - I have not yet seen any = credible figures=20 > showing that having happened. I think probably that Perry Mick = would come=20 > the closest when he was flying with no PSRU - just direct drive.=20 >=20 > While my early inexperence with aircraft design led me to the = flawed "...if=20 > in doubt, make it stout."" philosphy - I just never realized how = quickly an=20 > ounce here and an ounce there would quickly add up to 170 lbs = overweight -=20 > did have 44 lbs of battery, but still heavy.=20 >=20 > In any case, to make you feel a bit better, here is the breakout = of my FWF=20 > installation 377 lbs dry and 406 wet.=20 >=20 >=20 > Ed=20 >=20 > Engine Data=20 >=20 > Manufacture: Mazda Model: Rotary 13B(6 Port) Serial No:=20 >=20 > Displacement: 80 CID Oil Pressure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi=20 >=20 > Rated H.P: 160 at 6500 RPM=20 >=20 > Weight:=20 >=20 > Dry=20 >=20 > Engine (core) 190 Lbs (Mazda 13B)=20 >=20 > Starter: 10 Lbs (Toyota Geared)=20 >=20 > Alternator: 9 Lbs (Mazda 70A)=20 >=20 > Ignition Coils Assembl: 7 Lbs (Mazda)=20 >=20 > Evaporator Cores (2): 7 Lbs (Fitted with AN-16 Threaded fittings)=20 >=20 > Oil Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl's)=20 >=20 > Intake Manifold: 15 Lbs (Machined)=20 >=20 > Fule Injector Body: 3 Lbs (TWM)=20 >=20 > Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of 0.032 2034 Alum)=20 >=20 > Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs)=20 >=20 > Misc. Brakets, Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's Stainless Steel=20 > Braid/Fittings)=20 >=20 > Exhaust 5 Lbs (Stainless Steel, D oes not include Muffler)=20 >=20 > Mufflers 16 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo 32" Length, 2 = Required, 8=20 > lbs each)=20 >=20 > PSRU RWS 2.85:1 42 lbs=20 >=20 > Propeller 18 lbs=20 >=20 > Motor mount 19 lbs=20 >=20 > Total (Dry): 377 Lbs=20 >=20 > Wet=20 >=20 > Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs=20 >=20 > Oil ( 6 Qts) 13 Lbs=20 >=20 > Total: 406 Lbs=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Scott"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 6:31 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry=20 >=20 >=20 > I finally reached a point when everything was mounted on the = engine and=20 > wanted to know the dry weight. It came in at around 350 pounds.=20 >=20 > Add in a 3 blade IVO prop, oil, and coolant and I am at 400 = pounds...=20 >=20 > Needless to say that is not what I was hop ing for as Zenith lists = their FWF=20 > for a wet O360 with a 2 blade metal prop at 400 pounds.=20 >=20 > What have others come it at for a dry weight for their 13b setups? = >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________=20 > Do You Yahoo!?=20 > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around=20 > http://mail.yahoo.com=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub:=20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C81644.00502A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
David, I initially set it up (wired it) so I = could add an=20 external alternator voltage regulator, however, I have now flow with the = same=20 alternator for 10 years using the internal regulator without a = problem.  I=20 never added the external regulator.
 
  In all the years, I have had automobiles = with=20 internally regulated alternators, I have had a very few fail, but none = ever=20 failed in a mode to generate high voltage (always lower voltage). =20 Certainly not to say it couldn't happen, but I feel comfortable with the = present=20 arrangement.
 
YMMV
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 hoursaway1@comcast.net =
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, = 2007 10:52=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 350 = lbs=20 dry

Ed;; The Mazda alt. that you are useing has the volt. reg. = internal, are=20 you useing an external reg. also, I set up the harness for an external = to be=20 added if needed, do not want to if not needed, how is it working for=20 you.  Thanks,  David Cook,  RV-6A Rotary Lansing MI. = (getting=20 close.)
 
--------------=20 Original message --------------
From: "Ed Anderson"=20 <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>

> Don't beat yourself = up about=20 400 lbs. While we all would like to see our
> installations = weigh in=20 at 300 lbs - I have not yet seen any credible figures
> = showing that=20 having happened. I think probably that Perry Mick would come =
> the=20 closest when he was flying with no PSRU - just direct drive. =
>=20
> While my early inexperence with aircraft design led me to = the=20 flawed "...if
> in doubt, make it stout."" philosphy - I just = never=20 realized how quickly an
> ounce here and an ounce there would = quickly=20 add up to 170 lbs overweight -
> did have 44 lbs of battery, = but=20 still heavy.
>
> In any case, to make you feel a bit = better,=20 here is the breakout of my FWF
> installation 377 lbs dry and = 406=20 wet.
>
>
> Ed
>
> Engine Data =
>=20
> Manufacture: Mazda Model: Rotary 13B(6 Port) Serial No: =
>=20
> Displacement: 80 CID Oil Pressure Max: 85 Psi Min: 20 Psi =
>=20
> Rated H.P: 160 at 6500 RPM
>
> Weight: =
>=20
> Dry
>
> Engine (core) 190 Lbs (Mazda 13B) =
>=20
> Starter: 10 Lbs (Toyota Geared)
>
> = Alternator: 9 Lbs=20 (Mazda 70A)
>
> Ignition Coils Assembl: 7 Lbs (Mazda) =
>=20
> Evaporator Cores (2): 7 Lbs (Fitted with AN-16 Threaded = fittings)=20
>
> Oil Cooler: 4 Lbs (Earl's)
>
> = Intake=20 Manifold: 15 Lbs (Machined)
>
> Fule Injector Body: 3 = Lbs=20 (TWM)
>
> Air Box: 1 Lb (Made out of 0.032 2034 Alum) =
>=20
> Oil Filter Remote: 3 Lbs (Wolfs)
>
> Misc. = Brakets,=20 Hose (etc): 25 Lbs (Mostly Earl's Stainless Steel
> = Braid/Fittings)=20
>
> Exhaust 5 Lbs (Stainless Steel, D oes not include = Muffler)=20
>
> Mufflers 16 Lbs (Stainless Stell 3 1/2" Dia Borlo = 32"=20 Length, 2 Required, 8
> lbs each)
>
> PSRU RWS = 2.85:1=20 42 lbs
>
> Propeller 18 lbs
>
> Motor = mount 19=20 lbs
>
> Total (Dry): 377 Lbs
>
> Wet =
>=20
> Coolant (8 Qts) 16 Lbs
>
> Oil ( 6 Qts) 13 = Lbs=20
>
> Total: 406 Lbs
>
> ----- Original = Message=20 -----
> From: "Scott"
> To: = "Rotary=20 motors in aircraft"
> Sent: = Tuesday,=20 October 23, 2007 6:31 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] 350 lbs dry =
>=20
>
> I finally reached a point when everything was = mounted on=20 the engine and
> wanted to know the dry weight. It came in at = around=20 350 pounds.
>
> Add in a 3 blade IVO prop, oil, and = coolant=20 and I am at 400 pounds...
>
> Needless to say that is = not what=20 I was hop ing for as Zenith lists their FWF
> for a wet O360 = with a 2=20 blade metal prop at 400 pounds.
>
> What have others = come it=20 at for a dry weight for their 13b setups?
>
>
> =
>
>
>=20 __________________________________________________
> Do You = Yahoo!?=20
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection = around=20
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> --
> = Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> =
>=20
> --
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive=20 and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C81644.00502A20--