Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #39558
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RV-7A Cooling
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:34:45 -0400
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Ok, for ever 10 degrees drop in OAT at your airspeed you reject an additional  220 BTU/Min.
 
Taking 83 F as inlet then you got a 52 F increase which if your duct air velocity was 0.1*airspeed would only give you about 750 BTU/Min about 1/2 of what you would need.  BUT, if the air velocity in your duct was a bit higher say 0.2* airspeed then you would be rejecting approx 1500 BTU/Min which would still be marginal for the power you are producing to make 165MPH TAS, but might be inline with the oil temps you are seeing.
 
Getting 190F coolant and oil when you are hitting close to 200 MPH would be fine as  that would indicate you have your cooling system close to optimum with no/little reserve cooling capacity at your WOT.  But, hitting 190F at 165MPH indicates to me that there is insufficient cooling flow through your cores.  You have a fairly large duct as I recall to handle both the oil and radiator.  I don't know, but I would speculate that it is more difficult to keep that volume  of air from going turbulent with cooling robbing eddies than if you had two smaller volume ducts. 
 
I still believe you need to divide you plenum vertically - have you tried that, I know you tried several things, but I don't recall whether you tried that approach.  Perhaps as you suggested having more exit opening would help as well as your cowl pressure seemed a bit high near your core exits.
 
Keep at it, Dennis, you are breaking new ground with your cooling configuration and its not surprising it might not give in willingly.
 
Ed
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RV-7A Cooling

Ed

I'll need to "qualify" some of my numbers.  The digital OAT gage I used for the test was looking at temp. at the face of the radiator.  But!! the wires between the probe and the read-out were severed when I closed the canopy.  I did not discover this until after I landed.  The ambient temp on the ground was 94 deg. F.  Using 2 deg/1000 feet 94 - (2*5.5) = 83 deg at 6500 ft altitude ( ground is 1000 ' here).  If I had thought of it, I could have used the EM-2 OAT .  For this test I believe 83 deg is close enough.    The airspeed is based on the EM-2 TAS compared to a portable GPS.  I have not changed the calibration of the EM-2 from factory.  Also the inlet static 10 - 11 in water pressure was measured after the diffuser at the radiator face.  Dynamic pressure at 165 mph is about 13.2 inches  H2O.  .85*13.2 = 11.2 in. H2O.

You mentioned fuel burn rate.  So far I have not flown long enough flights to calibrate the EM-2 fuel burn.

Inlet to radiator area ratios:  Inlet fir water and oil combined is 45 in. sq.  Radiator face area at aft end of diffuser - water=247 in. sq. and oil = 171 in. sq. for a total rad. area of  418 in. sq.  inlet/rad. area = 0.11.

Dennis H



Ed Anderson wrote:
Dennis, I would like to see your temps at 6500 msl and 20" Hg manifold pressure quite a bit lower.  The coolant is a bit high but acceptable for those conditions (but may not be for other conditions) , but the oil temps is  a bit on the high side to me.  When my RV-6A is operated under similar conditions, my coolant ranges between 170-180F and oil temps the same. 
 
However, when you say inlet temps - do you mean inlet to your ducts or is that the inlet to your throttle body.  The  reason I ask is 90F seems very high for OAT at 6500 MSL and since you are using that figure to determine your Delta T across your cores, you need to insure that it is correct.
 
Another reason I question the 90F   temp is that with a 45F temp increase across your cooler core. If we assume the air velocity through your duct is an ideal 0.1 * Cruise speed then your mass flow through your core with a deltaT of 45F would only remove approx 700 BTU/Min.  IF duct air velocity  were 0.2*Cruise Speed then at 45F it would remove approx  1319 BTU/Min.  You don't say what your fuel burn is so I'm assuming at 164 MPH TAS you are making at least 100 HP (probably a good deal more) which would mean you need to get rid of a minimum of 1500 BTU/Min through your oil cooler.  So since you oil temps are a bit on the high I think it safe to say you are marginal in getting rid of the oil BTU.  But, if the OAT was 50F vice 90F then your delta T would be 85F.
 
With a 0.1*cruise speed duct speed and 85F delta T you would be getting rid of approx 1250 BTU/Min.  While still a bit on the low side probably good enough so that the excess oil BTU not discharged by the oil cooler is being picked up by the coolant.  If your duct speed is a bit faster than my assumption then you would get rid of more. 
 
I found when I solved my oil temp problem that my coolant temps came down considerably.  So one system can "leak" heat over to the other system to discharge.
 
So it is important that the correct inlet temp for your ducts be used to derive your deltaT, I strongly suspect that 90F is your throttle body inlet temp rather than your OAT at 6500 MSL.
 
For one thing, 4" of H20 inside the cowl does seem a bit high but I notice it drops off to 2" H20 which is more acceptable.  But, 6.5" H20 across the core would appear to be a  value which would indicate that your duct is doing a  fair job.  The dynamic pressure at 165MPH is around 10" H20.  The best duct (Streamline = 0.84 Efficient) would give you around 0.84 *10"h20 = 9.155" H20.  Your 6.5/10.899 = 60 % would indicate the duct is doing a  fair job.  However, the cowl pressure may be lowering this value a bit.
 
In any case, need to know whether your inlet to your ducts was actually 90F or was this your throttle body inlet temp which is almost always higher than OAT.
 
Good work on gathering data.
 
Ed
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:40 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RV-7A Cooling



I still working to improve my oil cooling  -
Renesis engine, PSRU 2.8:1, Catto 76X88 composite prop, water and oil radiators under engine at about 30 degrees to inlet air flow, James cowl - shark intake under spinner .   See pictures below.

Today I flew and recorded some temperature and static pressure numbers for anyone to comment on.

Test conditions:
90 deg OAT =  inlet air temperature
About 6500 foot altitude
TAS - GPS and EM-2 : 165 mph
Manifold pressure 20in.
RPM 5700
Water Temp - 192 deg F
Oil temp leaving oil cooler - 207 deg. F
Oil temp in oil pan - 235 deg. F
Temp of heated air leaving oil cooler -135 deg F (135-90 = 45 deg temp rise of cooling air through the oil cooler)
Temp of heated air in cowl low and near firewall  133 deg. F

I measured static air pressures at 5 points inside the cowl as follows:
1). Inlet side of oil cooler:  10.5 in water
2). Back side of oil cooler:  4 in water  ( 10.5 - 4 = 6.5 in water pressure drop across oil cooler.)
3). Midway between oil cooler and firewall: 2.75 in water
4). Right side within 4 inches of firewall and 3 inches above bottom of firewall: 2 in water
5). Left side within 4 inches of firewall and 3 inches above bottom of firewall: 2 in water


Before these tests Bobby H. and I were thinking I needed more outlet area to improve my cooling.  I am seriously considering
a big cowl flap to lower the pressure in the cowl.  Does this data support this position?

Hopefully better minds than mine will know!!



Dennis H.










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