X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.231] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2179532 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:58:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.231; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so887832wxd for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:58:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ioZbqEJw1aVhnXMz4/LAci6K403BGGock/050+MWZ2clZPz0X2pUGJSgKoTlMbch/X27fgRw6eW6W6xdcCaCumOVn62VYDzuntPaDh5jOrrhQZnRRsLZhZ6aKSPy5rn6ELWvIlEjoqwYu7zuKcK2bANl51IA8OtGrd+Bqe5xLDQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fs82PCbR1qIj3hNreTgmD7qrY2AQ9C3rPMvuCnnD3X29heOHiZqlxMnhlrSTbIT2e8gWLhzQlG9/ZZatfZuAH/Qh66vDHq3S2o18a3o4dI0zSDTl4jga7Efo0vPR+MhFjbSLdpVYUPpflp9nR5YRKNplb10puSRIKCaDrUmK4IY= Received: by 10.90.100.2 with SMTP id x2mr2733112agb.1184547491630; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.115.6 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0707151758k38c10fdcg2973d57c0bc1de57@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:58:11 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 changes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_15061_20614598.1184547491497" References: ------=_Part_15061_20614598.1184547491497 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Al, I can get it into track mode by following the procedure, but once in track mode, selecting mode 9 does nothing that I can detect. Nothing changes. Something to discuss with Tracy if/when he gets back from CO. Right now I'm reinstalling the inspection panels, and all the other stuff I had to remove for the DAR. Also, I changed the oil & filter, and read up o= n the EM-2 procedure for zeroing the oil timer, etc. I went through the process in the book, but the oil timer didn't change until I powered it dow= n and when I powered it up, the timer read zero. Nothing in the documentatio= n about having to power it down before the reset will take. (Note to self: reminder to discuss this procedure with Tracy). I hope to fly in a week or two after I get some recurrency training. Trust me, my rotary buds will be the first to know when it happens. Mark St. On 7/14/07, Al Gietzen wrote: > > Mark wrote: > > Best I recall, my coil disable switches work as they should, i.e. engine > slows when shutting down either. But is slows more when I disable > the leading coils than when disabling the trailing coils. I haven't trie= d > it at high rpm though. > > Mine behaves as expected at lower power, but at high power (I guess about > 4800 rpm) I get a slight decrease in rpm turning of leading (~100 rpm) an= d a > larger decrease shutting off trailing (~300-400 rpm). > > Whenever you have the opportunity to check at higher rpm, I'd be > interested in hearing the result. > > > > I do suspect that my auto-tune feature isn't working (could be operator > error). It was supposed to have had the auto-tune upgrade done a year or= so > back. But I go through all the steps described in the manual but the > mixture doesn't seem to change. > > > > Be sure it is getting into track mode, and then set mode 9. The table > value is displayed (I think upper right on the display) and you can see i= t > changing. > > > > What's your current status? Getting close to first flight?? > > > > Al > > > > On 7/11/07, *Al Gietzen* wrote: > > Further to my last posting on the subject; we did the following changes t= o > my 20B EC2 > > > > 1. reduced values of the added caps for noise filtering on the > ignitions circuits by a factor of ten. > > 2. replaced the MAP pressure sensor on Controller "A" > > 3. added what is being referred to as the 'clamping diodes' or > 'snubbers' on the injector circuits. > > > > Changing the capacitors had no noticeable effect on what I believed was a > timing issue. I still find that at low power disabling leading coils has > definitely more effect than disabling trailing; whereas at high power, sa= y > about 19" MAP and above, disabling the leading has small effect and > disabling trialing has larger effect. I have concluded that the timing i= s > not late with both on; since I found that now retarding the timing a 2-3 > steps (4-5 degrees) at power increased the rpm a bit. I think the larger > caps did result in a small retarding of the spark. > > > > Does anyone else with a 3-rotor, and using the LS1 coils, note the same > behavior when disabling leading/trailing ignition? Tracy mentioned that > on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either set results in the > engine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the circuitry. > > > > I thought that the strange leaning of mixture with altitude when running > on controller A was solved by replacing the pressure sensor =96 until I g= ot > over 5000'. Then over the next 200 ft increase the mixture monitor bar o= n > the EM2 went slowly off the bottom of the scale, and it took turning the > mixture knob to about 3:00 position to return it to a mid-scale reading. > Switching to controller B gave me a momentary scare =96 the engine quit,= well > completely lost power for the fraction of a second that it took to switch > back to A. More on this below. > > > > Adding the snubbers on the injector circuits resulted in quite a differen= t > profile on the mixture table settings. It also resulted in smoother runn= ing > at low rpm, and seemingly easier tuning to get smooth transition from 'lo= w' > to 'high' table, and across the stage point (or maybe I'm just getting > better re-tuning). > > > > One thing I had discovered when re-tuning was that, apparently due to > powering up the unit on the bench to check the MAP sensor, resulted in th= e > injector pulse setting (mode 3) to get set to a much lower value, and the > stage point to someplace out of range. The engine would only run with th= e > cold start switch on. Once I got those things straightened out, things > proceeded smoothly. When I had all well on controller A, I did the copy = A > to B. Prior to flying, I had not checked running on B. (OK, it's on my ch= eck > list, I just bypassed it.) After the episode in the air I figured out tha= t B > was acting like A did before the retuning. I tried multiple times again t= o > copy A to B; but it did not take. I had to manually retune B to get thin= gs > running right. Don't know what, but the copy A to B is not working. > > > > Didn't mean to run on here =96 am I boring anyone yet J? > > > > Expect to fly tomorrow for some air pressure measurements on the oil > cooler. > > > > Al > > > > > > > ------=_Part_15061_20614598.1184547491497 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Al,
I can get it into track mode by following the procedure, but once= in track mode, selecting mode 9 does nothing that I can detect.  = ;Nothing changes.  Something to discuss with Tracy if/when he gets bac= k from CO.
 
Right now I'm reinstalling the inspection panels, and all the= other stuff I had to remove for the DAR.  Also, I changed t= he oil & filter, and read up on the EM-2 procedure for zeroin= g the oil timer, etc.  I went through the process in the book, but the=  oil timer didn't change until I powered it down and when I p= owered it up, the timer read zero.  Nothing in the documentation = about having to power it down before the reset will take.  (Note = to self: reminder to discuss this procedure with Tracy). 
 
I hope to fly in a week or two after I get some recurrency traini= ng.  Trust me, my rotary buds will be the first to know= when it happens.  
 
 
Mark St.  

 
On 7/14/07, = Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net= > wrote:

Mark wrote: 

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best I recall, my coil disable switches work= as they should, i.e. engine slows when shutting down either.&nbs= p; But is slows more when I disable the leading coils than w= hen disabling the trailing coils.  I haven't tried it at = ;high rpm though.

Mine behaves as expected at low= er power, but at high power (I guess about 4800 rpm) I get a slight decreas= e in rpm turning of leading (~100 rpm) and a larger decrease shutting off t= railing (~300-400 rpm).

Whenever you have the opportuni= ty to check at higher rpm, I'd be interested in hearing the result.<= /font>

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I do suspect that my auto-tune feature isn&#= 39;t working (could be operator error).  It was supposed to have = had the auto-tune upgrade done a year or so back.  But I go through al= l the steps described in the manual but the mixture doesn't&n= bsp;seem to change.

 

Be sure it is getting into trac= k mode, and then set mode 9.  The table value is displayed (I think up= per right on the display) and you can see it changing.=20

 

What's your current status? Get= ting close to first flight??

 

Al  
 

On 7/11/0= 7, Al Gietzen = < ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Further to my last posting on = the subject; we did the following changes to my 20B EC2

 

1.     reduced values of the= added caps for noise filtering on the ignitions circuits by a factor of te= n.

2.     replaced the MAP pres= sure sensor on Controller "A"

3.     added what is being r= eferred to as the 'clamping diodes' or 'snubbers' on the in= jector circuits.

 

Changing the capacitors had no= noticeable effect on what I believed was a timing issue.  I still fin= d that at low power disabling leading coils has definitely more effect than= disabling trailing; whereas at high power, say about 19" MAP and abov= e, disabling the leading has small effect and disabling trialing has larger= effect.  I have concluded that the timing is not late with both on; s= ince I found that now retarding the timing a 2-3 steps (4-5 degrees) at pow= er increased the rpm a bit. I think the larger caps did result in a small r= etarding of the spark.=20

 

Does anyone else with a 3-roto= r, and using the LS1 coils, note the same behavior when disabling leading/t= railing ignition?  =20 Tracy mentioned tha= t on his 20B using the renesis coils, disabling either set results in the e= ngine stopping, so there may be something amiss in the circuitry.=20

 

I thought that the strange lea= ning of mixture with altitude when running on controller A was solved by re= placing the pressure sensor =96 until I got over 5000'.  Then over= the next 200 ft increase the mixture monitor bar on the EM2 went slowly of= f the bottom of the scale, and it took turning the mixture knob to about 3:= 00 position to return it to a mid-scale reading.  Switching to control= ler B gave me a momentary scare =96 the engine quit, well completely lost p= ower for the fraction of a second that it took to switch back to A. More on= this below.=20

 

Adding the snubbers on the inj= ector circuits resulted in quite a different profile on the mixture table s= ettings.  It also resulted in smoother running at low rpm, and seeming= ly easier tuning to get smooth transition from 'low' to 'high&#= 39; table, and across the stage point (or maybe I'm just getting better= re-tuning). =20

 

One thing I had discovered whe= n re-tuning was that, apparently due to powering up the unit on the bench t= o check the MAP sensor, resulted in the injector pulse setting (mode 3) to = get set to a much lower value, and the stage point to someplace out of rang= e.  The engine would only run with the cold start switch on.  Onc= e I got those things straightened out, things proceeded smoothly.  Whe= n I had all well on controller A, I did the copy A to B. Prior to flying, I= had not checked running on B. (OK, it's on my check list, I just bypas= sed it.) After the episode in the air I figured out that B was acting like = A did before the retuning. I tried multiple times again to copy A to B; but= it did not take.  I had to manually retune B to get things running ri= ght.  Don't know what, but the copy A to B is not working.=20

 

Didn't mean to run on here= =96 am I boring anyone yet J?

 

Expect to fly tomorrow for som= e air pressure measurements on the oil cooler.

 

Al

 

 

=

<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> 


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