X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.158] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2042092 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 May 2007 11:28:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.158; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.78]) by bay0-omc2-s22.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 13 May 2007 08:27:32 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 May 2007 08:27:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.150.129 by BAY115-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 13 May 2007 15:27:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.150.129] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:27:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C79551.AE620EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:27:25 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2007 15:27:32.0611 (UTC) FILETIME=[39C18530:01C79573] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C79551.AE620EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If the slide-throttle was installed Upstream of the plenum it would work = fine. But this would make no sense for the slide-throttle that Paul = designed. It is a two-holer designed to be installed right next to = the engine ports (P-ported engine). A single hole would be the best = for an upstream design.=20 FWIW, I don't get the whole rational for the slide-throttle. True, it = it theoretically the best performing solution but I live in the real = world where the small theoretical advantage is outweighed by other = factors. TJ, I forgot to comment on the FBW. It is near (near being a relative = term : ) production status but the hold modes are still being worked on = and will not be finished before the RV-8 flys and it has been flight = proven. I don't sell flight critical stuff that I haven't risked my own = tender pink skin on first.=20 Tracy (Last EC2 update out the door, departing for Colorado Tuesday) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question Hi Tracy, thanx for screening the smoke! I already thought so (you wouldn't be selling, if your product would = not work....). Just wanted the scope on the smoke-machine, it is always entertaining = at the least, but mostly also very educational - technically and human = relations wise:) As far as his slide-throttle p-port goes: P-port should not be a hindrance to install a manifold-plenum or is = there something I don't see?? TJ =20 Hi TJ, Smoke is very hard to clear up. Visibility here in Fla was less = than 1/4 mile all day. I thought it was the fires in Georgia & N. = Florida but it is possible that it was from a certain Email list = purveyor in California :-0=20 Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with the = EC2 is just that - Smoke. The engine load is accurately reflected by = Manifold pressure and RPM. These are the primary inputs to the EC2 so = it has no problem tracking the variations caused by a CS prop. I don't = have the time to elaborate but it is actually harder to match the fuel = requirements of a fixed pitch prop in most circumstances. The changes = in volumetric efficiency due to rpm change are eliminated with a CS = prop.=20 The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one = which I will abbreviate out of necessity. It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark Supenski's P = Port engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run = before). As it happens, there is no manifold on an engine in this = configuration so it is difficult to measure manifold pressure. Where = are you going to get manifold pressure from? (did I mention that = manifold pressure was a primary input to the EC2?) To make matters = worse, Paul was so confident in his abilities to make anything work = (even an EFI system that he had zero experience with) that he didn't = bother to take the EC2 instructions with him to Mazdatrix. Given = these circumstances, it was no surprise that the dyno run was a dismal = failure. Dave at Mazdatrix yanked everything off the engine, put a = webber carb and manifold on it and got it running in order to get a pull = on the dyno.=20 And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by = extension, with a CS prop) was born. =20 Tracy ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C79551.AE620EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If the slide-throttle was installed Upstream of the plenum it would = work=20 fine.  But this would make no sense for the slide-throttle that = Paul=20 designed.    It is a two-holer designed to be installed = right=20 next to the engine ports (P-ported engine).   A single hole = would be=20 the best for an upstream design. 
 
FWIW, I don't get the whole rational for the slide-throttle.  = True, it=20 it theoretically the best performing solution but I live in the real = world where=20 the small theoretical advantage is outweighed by other factors.
 
TJ, I forgot to comment on the FBW.   It is near (near = being a=20 relative term : )  production status but the hold modes are still = being=20 worked on and will not be finished before the RV-8 flys and it has been = flight=20 proven.  I don't sell flight critical stuff that I haven't risked=20 my own tender pink skin on first. 
 
Tracy (Last EC2 update out the door, departing for Colorado = Tuesday)
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Jakits
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 = 3:49=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 = smoke=20 question

Hi Tracy,
 
thanx for screening the smoke!
I already thought so (you wouldn't be selling, if your product = would not=20 work....).
Just wanted the scope on the smoke-machine, it is always = entertaining at=20 the least, but mostly also very educational - technically and human = relations=20 wise:)
 
As far as his slide-throttle p-port goes:
 
P-port should not be a hindrance to install a = manifold-plenum or is=20 there something I don't see??
 
TJ

 
 
Hi TJ,
 
Smoke is very hard to clear up.   Visibility here in = Fla was=20 less than 1/4 mile all day.  I thought it was the fires in = Georgia=20 & N. Florida but it is possible that it was from a certain Email = list=20 purveyor in California :-0
 
Seriously, the C/S prop story about not being compatible with = the EC2=20 is just that - Smoke.   The engine load is=20 accurately reflected by Manifold pressure and RPM.  These = are the=20 primary inputs to the EC2 so it has no problem tracking the = variations=20 caused by a CS prop.  I don't have the time to elaborate = but it is=20 actually harder to match the fuel requirements of a fixed pitch = prop in=20 most circumstances.  The changes in volumetric efficiency due = to rpm=20 change are eliminated with a CS prop.
 
The full story about the "Dyno incompatibility" is a longer one = which I=20 will abbreviate out of necessity.
 
 It started with Paul's trip to Mazdatrix to test Mark = Supenski's=20 P Port engine with his beloved slide throttle (which had never run=20 before).   As it happens, there is no manifold on an = engine in=20 this configuration so it is difficult to measure manifold = pressure. =20 Where are you going to get manifold pressure from?  (did I = mention that=20 manifold pressure was a primary input to the EC2?)  To make = matters=20 worse, Paul was so confident in his abilities to make anything work = (even an=20 EFI system that he had zero experience with) that he = didn't bother=20 to take the EC2 instructions with him to = Mazdatrix.    Given=20 these circumstances, it was no surprise that the dyno run was a = dismal=20 failure.  Dave at Mazdatrix yanked everything off the engine, = put a=20 webber carb and manifold on it and got it running in order to get a = pull on=20 the dyno.
 
And so the story of how the EC2 will not run on a Dyno (and by=20 extension, with a CS prop) was born. 
 
=
Tracy
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